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is korea really that bad?
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kangnam mafioso



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Teheranno

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:17 pm    Post subject: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

i spent over 2 years in korea and have been back in the states teaching english for 3 years. i'm 33 and have decided to come back to korea this spring for the long haul. i'm feeling a little burned out on america: the politics, the materialism, the war-mongering, the incessant stupidity on the tv, the uber-provinicalism nearly everywhere except some larger cities, the rules and laws for everything, the puritanical attitude towards tobacco and alcohol, the gas prices and increasing expense of living anywhere nice, the treatment of teachers like expendable pieces of crap, the bureaucracy and micro-management of public schools, the unbelievably insane job market in higher education (i've been teaching english as an adjunct instructor at a community college with no benefits or paid time off and a ridiculously low salary), the mind numbing violence, the me me me culture, the vast right-wing conspiracy of the republican conservatives .... i could go on and on .... don't get me wrong -- there are things i like about the US and A (see Borat yet? haha) and a lot of people that i care about in the world live here, but i'm starting to think it's a much nicer place to visit (not to reside in -- at least for people in education) and that's why i want to become an NRA (non resident American) towards the spring. this is no way for an educated person to live, being strung along from semester to semester without benefits or respect or stability. i could teach high school english here but i can't stomach the public schools (i tried it 2 years ago and hated it -- would rather work in a factory on an assembly line).

i should have never left korea ... had a great job at a university teaching 12 hrs a week and 3 months of paid holidays. that's so much free time to travel, visit home, make extra money, write and work on other projects, sit on a beach in Palau breathing in fresh air and getting ready to snorkel, gaze at the taj mahal before you jet off to katmandu to marvel at everest .... that's living and it's all at your fingertips if you can land a decent gig in korea. i have friends who teach uni in seoul with 5 months off paid and they make mad coin with all the extra jobs they can do.

when i first arrived in korea 5 years ago, i wasn't comfortable with the expat life. i felt that i was always missing out on things back home. i felt like a loser teaching at a korean university. now, the opposite is true. i feel like people back home are missing out on life abroad and i feel sorry for teachers in the states weighted down with crazy mortgages and unhappy marriages, counting down the days until they retire so they can spend their money on more crap they don't need and their 3 day carnival cruises.

let me illustrate this point further. i have a 35 year old friend who is a tax accountant. he makes about double what teachers make ($70,000), has a home that is worth $350,000, big yard and drives an older SUV. he's not rich but he has entered the upper-middle class in his thirties here in America. but he's unhappy as hell. he loathes his boring job. he's in crazy debt from his huge house that he doesn't need (he's not married), has never even been out of the country but is always talking about how he wants to travel. but he can't afford it because he chooses to spend his money on a giant mortgage payment and stuff for his lawn. he's not a bad looking guy but he has to practically beg middle-aged, chunky women with kids to go out with him on dates ...so ...the affluence and status that a lot of people want to leave korea for isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

so, i will come back to korea and milk that gravy train for as long as possible. i want some excitement and freedom back in my life. what's the big deal teaching in asia vs america if you are qualified to teach both places? the conditions are much better in korea and so why not return?? it seems like a no-brainer. in my 40s and 50s i will hopefully have a lot of money saved, a book written and can return to the states to buy a home. who knows, maybe the job market in higher education will have improved by then (after all those baby boomers retire).
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Atavistic



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

kangnam mafioso wrote:
what's the big deal teaching in asia vs america if you are qualified to teach both places? the conditions are much better in korea and so why not return?? it


I have a feeling that your post was written more as a self-justification than something you actually had a question about or whatnot, but I had to pick at this point. I am a certified teacher. While teaching in America sucked due to some things (hello, No Child Left Behind Act), I always got paid on time. I never got told that I'd get 10 weeks off during the summer and then have it taken away. I did get my fair share of racism, however, being the only white teacher on my grade in a black school.

I'm just not sure that the conditions are "much better in [K]orea" for certified teachers, though it depends on what you're weighing, I suppose.

I'm nowhere ready to leave Korea, but it sure isn't because the teaching here is better.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

kangnam mafioso wrote:
i spent over 2 years in korea and have been back in the states teaching english for 3 years. i'm 33 and have decided to come back to korea this spring for the long haul. i'm feeling a little burned out on america: the politics, the materialism, the war-mongering, the incessant stupidity on the tv, the uber-provinicalism nearly everywhere except some larger cities, the rules and laws for everything, the puritanical attitude towards tobacco and alcohol, the gas prices and increasing expense of living anywhere nice, the treatment of teachers like expendable pieces of crap, the bureaucracy and micro-management of public schools, the unbelievably insane job market in higher education (i've been teaching english as an adjunct instructor at a community college with no benefits or paid time off and a ridiculously low salary), the mind numbing violence, the me me me culture, the vast right-wing conspiracy of the republican conservatives .... i could go on and on .... don't get me wrong -- there are things i like about the US and A (see Borat yet? haha) and a lot of people that i care about in the world live here, but i'm starting to think it's a much nicer place to visit (not to reside in -- at least for people in education) and that's why i want to become an NRA (non resident American) towards the spring. this is no way for an educated person to live, being strung along from semester to semester without benefits or respect or stability. i could teach high school english here but i can't stomach the public schools (i tried it 2 years ago and hated it -- would rather work in a factory on an assembly line).

i should have never left korea ... had a great job at a university teaching 12 hrs a week and 3 months of paid holidays. that's so much free time to travel, visit home, make extra money, write and work on other projects, sit on a beach in Palau breathing in fresh air and getting ready to snorkel, gaze at the taj mahal before you jet off to katmandu to marvel at everest .... that's living and it's all at your fingertips if you can land a decent gig in korea. i have friends who teach uni in seoul with 5 months off paid and they make mad coin with all the extra jobs they can do.

when i first arrived in korea 5 years ago, i wasn't comfortable with the expat life. i felt that i was always missing out on things back home. i felt like a loser teaching at a korean university. now, the opposite is true. i feel like people back home are missing out on life abroad and i feel sorry for teachers in the states weighted down with crazy mortgages and unhappy marriages, counting down the days until they retire so they can spend their money on more crap they don't need and their 3 day carnival cruises.

let me illustrate this point further. i have a 35 year old friend who is a tax accountant. he makes about double what teachers make ($70,000), has a home that is worth $350,000, big yard and drives an older SUV. he's not rich but he has entered the upper-middle class in his thirties here in America. but he's unhappy as hell. he loathes his boring job. he's in crazy debt from his huge house that he doesn't need (he's not married), has never even been out of the country but is always talking about how he wants to travel. but he can't afford it because he chooses to spend his money on a giant mortgage payment and stuff for his lawn. he's not a bad looking guy but he has to practically beg middle-aged, chunky women with kids to go out with him on dates ...so ...the affluence and status that a lot of people want to leave korea for isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

so, i will come back to korea and milk that gravy train for as long as possible. i want some excitement and freedom back in my life. what's the big deal teaching in asia vs america if you are qualified to teach both places? the conditions are much better in korea and so why not return?? it seems like a no-brainer. in my 40s and 50s i will hopefully have a lot of money saved, a book written and can return to the states to buy a home. who knows, maybe the job market in higher education will have improved by then (after all those baby boomers retire).


You're about in the same boat as me. Same age, too. I was in the corporate racket back in the west and felt uncomfortable with the compromising that I was seeing, as people wake up one day to see they are bogged down in debt, the accumulation of 'stuff', and look around and see others doing the same, so they feel apt to keep going with that societal mold. It's become a religion of sorts. If you're not following that mold, one can feel guilty, almost like they are 'sinning'. I think that's one of the reasons why many expats have a low self-opinion of expat culture in Korea.

Whenever I haven't been back in the West for awhile, I start getting antsy and wondering what I'm missing out on. Last time I went back, I started missing Korea in the departure lounge of my first stop-over in Seattle, enroute to Calgary. Then after sitting around at the pubs and getting caught up with the ongoings of my friends lives, it resonates further that the rat race has not changed. But despite their rigid adherence to that lifestyle, once they're drunk and loosened up, you start to hear them talk in bewilderment of what you've seen and done while living in Asia.

I don't think anybody should be hard on any other expat for staying long-term in Asia. Living in Korea has its headaches, just like living in any country has its indigenous headaches. Some people prefer the familiar headaches of the West like its a comfortable, reliable blanket. But I prefer what living and travelling in Asia has to offer and being able to look under rocks of the culture everyday, to see what's there.
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Fresh Prince



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

kangnam mafioso wrote:
i spent over 2 years in korea and have been back in the states teaching english for 3 years. i'm 33 and have decided to come back to korea this spring for the long haul. i'm feeling a little burned out on america: the politics, the materialism, the war-mongering, the incessant stupidity on the tv, the uber-provinicalism nearly everywhere except some larger cities, the rules and laws for everything, the puritanical attitude towards tobacco and alcohol, the gas prices and increasing expense of living anywhere nice, the treatment of teachers like expendable pieces of crap, the bureaucracy and micro-management of public schools, the unbelievably insane job market in higher education (i've been teaching english as an adjunct instructor at a community college with no benefits or paid time off and a ridiculously low salary), the mind numbing violence, the me me me culture, the vast right-wing conspiracy of the republican conservatives .... i could go on and on .... don't get me wrong -- there are things i like about the US and A (see Borat yet? haha) and a lot of people that i care about in the world live here, but i'm starting to think it's a much nicer place to visit (not to reside in -- at least for people in education) and that's why i want to become an NRA (non resident American) towards the spring. this is no way for an educated person to live, being strung along from semester to semester without benefits or respect or stability. i could teach high school english here but i can't stomach the public schools (i tried it 2 years ago and hated it -- would rather work in a factory on an assembly line).

i should have never left korea ... had a great job at a university teaching 12 hrs a week and 3 months of paid holidays. that's so much free time to travel, visit home, make extra money, write and work on other projects, sit on a beach in Palau breathing in fresh air and getting ready to snorkel, gaze at the taj mahal before you jet off to katmandu to marvel at everest .... that's living and it's all at your fingertips if you can land a decent gig in korea. i have friends who teach uni in seoul with 5 months off paid and they make mad coin with all the extra jobs they can do.

when i first arrived in korea 5 years ago, i wasn't comfortable with the expat life. i felt that i was always missing out on things back home. i felt like a loser teaching at a korean university. now, the opposite is true. i feel like people back home are missing out on life abroad and i feel sorry for teachers in the states weighted down with crazy mortgages and unhappy marriages, counting down the days until they retire so they can spend their money on more crap they don't need and their 3 day carnival cruises.

let me illustrate this point further. i have a 35 year old friend who is a tax accountant. he makes about double what teachers make ($70,000), has a home that is worth $350,000, big yard and drives an older SUV. he's not rich but he has entered the upper-middle class in his thirties here in America. but he's unhappy as hell. he loathes his boring job. he's in crazy debt from his huge house that he doesn't need (he's not married), has never even been out of the country but is always talking about how he wants to travel. but he can't afford it because he chooses to spend his money on a giant mortgage payment and stuff for his lawn. he's not a bad looking guy but he has to practically beg middle-aged, chunky women with kids to go out with him on dates ...so ...the affluence and status that a lot of people want to leave korea for isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

so, i will come back to korea and milk that gravy train for as long as possible. i want some excitement and freedom back in my life. what's the big deal teaching in asia vs america if you are qualified to teach both places? the conditions are much better in korea and so why not return?? it seems like a no-brainer. in my 40s and 50s i will hopefully have a lot of money saved, a book written and can return to the states to buy a home. who knows, maybe the job market in higher education will have improved by then (after all those baby boomers retire).


Cool Perfectly put

Everyone thought I was crazy leaving my "good" corporate job to go to Korea. I don't miss my cubicle one bit. Mr. Green
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spliff



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the vast right-wing conspiracy of the republican conservatives


uhhhhh....do they travel in spaceships?
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

kangnam mafioso wrote:
he's in crazy debt from his huge house that he doesn't need (he's not married), has never even been out of the country but is always talking about how he wants to travel. but he can't afford it because he chooses to spend his money on a giant mortgage payment and stuff for his lawn. he's not a bad looking guy but he has to practically beg middle-aged, chunky women with kids to go out with him on dates ...so ...the affluence and status that a lot of people want to leave korea for isn't always what it's cracked up to be.


By the way, tell your friend to sell his house for something more affordable and try asking some good-looking women out on dates.

And yes I agree, nothing wrong with being a long-term ex-pat, except being so far away from family.
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twg



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the vast right-wing conspiracy of the republican conservatives

Conspiracies need to be secrets.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm also an over-educated 33-year-old from a country very similar to yours - not all of the problems you listed but with even less employment opportunities at the professional level. Let me tell you, what you wrote really resonates with me. I also have friends from school with mortgages, chunky wives, and kids, and you couldn't pay me a million dollars to trade places with them. Next week I'll be in SE Asia will they're still stuck doing the same boring thing week after week, their outlet to the rest of the world being hollywood movies.

For white guys our age Korea really is a God-send, isn't it?
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DCJames



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can get a decent paying stable job here, I think Korea is a good option if you don't have career options back home.

One thing I worry about is the high cost of living in Seoul. It seems like housing, gas, and food prices are just unreasonable high here.
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have a friend in New York who misses Korea really bad, but is staying for the sake of his family. I tell him where I've been and what vacation spots I've hit, and he says he's jealous like crazy.

Not saying Korea is a perfect place or that everyone should drop everything and come here, but well, Korea has changed many lives.
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spliff



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCJames wrote:
If you can get a decent paying stable job here, I think Korea is a good option if you don't have career options back home.

One thing I worry about is the high cost of living in Seoul. It seems like housing, gas, and food prices are just unreasonable high here.


I didn't know that "no career options" was now a college major, but then, why would anyone choose to study it?
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

I disagree. I still eat meals for an average of 5,000 won, no dishes to wash. I don't drive and never would, in this country where it seems a blind man could get a license. Housing is very cheap to rent in the right areas, just buying is out of the question.


DCJames wrote:
If you can get a decent paying stable job here, I think Korea is a good option if you don't have career options back home.

One thing I worry about is the high cost of living in Seoul. It seems like housing, gas, and food prices are just unreasonable high here.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:
Well, I'm also an over-educated 33-year-old from a country very similar to yours - not all of the problems you listed but with even less employment opportunities at the professional level. Let me tell you, what you wrote really resonates with me. I also have friends from school with mortgages, chunky wives, and kids, and you couldn't pay me a million dollars to trade places with them. Next week I'll be in SE Asia will they're still stuck doing the same boring thing week after week, their outlet to the rest of the world being hollywood movies.

For white guys our age Korea really is a God-send, isn't it?


Heavens, yes!

I'm not really a fan of Kangnam Mafioso, but his OP is so on target it actually frightened me.

Family members ask me....why are you in SK, given that England is the best country on the face of the earth? My answer is....very simply....I've no desire whatsoever to be anywhere else. It's an imperfect, often irritating society, but compared to my former existence, working 50% of my day for free in slavery to taxes and rent, it's paradise. I'm hornier too.


Last edited by SPINOZA on Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: is korea really that bad? Reply with quote

[quote="kangnam mafioso"]

Quote:
the materialism




Quote:
the incessant stupidity on the tv




Quote:
the uber-provinicalism nearly everywhere except some larger cities


Ever lived in Chuncheon?


Quote:
the treatment of teachers like expendable pieces of crap

Laughing

Quote:
the bureaucracy
( Laughing )

Quote:
management of public schools


Quote:
no .... paid time off

For your sake then i hope you find your old uni job still there.

Quote:
the me me me culture






I really don't think you'll find much different.
You need to go to somewhere like...Jamaica
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PimpofKorea



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Dealing in high quality imported English

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can make easy money if your clever enough....everything else about Korea sucks... *except for those dancing girls.....can a Nikka get a table dance"
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