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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: No Substitute For Victory |
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No Substitute For Victory
I've snippetted only a fraction of this very large article. It is an uncommon critique of the Bush administration, and an advocate of taking Islamism as seriously as we did Fascism.
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...[A] state of siege is being more deeply entrenched inside America every day.
We are losing the war by institutionalizing the loss of our freedoms, searching the sneakers of senior citizens in wheelchairs in order to avoid confronting bellicose dictatorships overseas.
In the minds of many people, the Bush administration�s allegedly �offensive� strategy has discredited the very idea of genuinely offensive war for American self-interest, which it pledged to fight, and then betrayed to its core.
Our soldiers come home maimed or dead, and military offense, rather than timidity, takes the blame. To compensate for our weakness overseas, we are building electric fences and security barriers to keep the world out, accepting the medieval ideal of walled towns under constant threat of attack, rather than destroying the source of such threats.
In short, the second, pragmatic, altruistic approach has failed.
In the five years since 9/11, the motivations behind the Islamic attacks have not been suppressed�and this is the real failure of these policies. The number of particular attacks is not the measure of success or failure. The Islamic Totalitarians remain physically intact, spiritually committed, and politically empowered.
The Islamic Totalitarian movement remains�distributed, without the strong central command Al Qaeda once had, but still energized�and it appears like hidden gushers, the jihad bursting forth in seemingly random places by internal pressure from an underground stream.
Our acceptance of pragmatism, the policy of short-range trial and error that rejects principles on principle�and altruism, the morality of self-sacrifice�left no other result possible.
The reason for this failure is that every one of the ideas we used to evaluate our options is wrong. In every case, the opposite of today�s �conventional wisdom� is true.
A strong offense does not create new enemies; it defeats existing foes. Were this not so, we would be fighting German and Japanese suicide bombers today, while North Korea�undefeated by America�would be peaceful, prosperous, and free.
Poverty is not the �root cause� of wars. If it were, poor Mexicans would be attacking America, not begging for jobs at Wal-Mart.
Democracy is not a route to freedom�not for the Greeks who voted to kill Socrates, nor for the Romans who acclaimed Caesar, nor for the Germans who elected Hitler.
A culture of slavery and suicide is not equal to a culture of freedom and prosperity�not for those who value life.
The world is not a flux of contradictions, in which principles do not work. If it were, gravity would not hold, vaccinations would not work, and one would not have a right to one�s life.
Being moral does not mean sacrificing for others. It means accepting the American principle of �life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness��and living for one�s own sake.
History is clear: All-out force against fanatical killers is both practical and moral. |
Note: One needn't be a student of the classics to open his mind to this argument, but I'm betting it helps. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Chaos By Design:
An "Islamic Civil War"
By M. SHAHID ALAM
http://www.counterpunch.org/shahid12232006.html
The war that Western powers--primarily US, Israel and Britain--began against the Islamic world after September 11, 2001, is about to enter a new more dangerous phase as their early plans for 'changing the map of the Middle East' have begun to unravel with unintended consequences.
Codenamed 'the war against terror,' the imperialist war against the Middle East was fueled primarily by US and Israeli ambitions. Britain's participation is mostly a sideshow. US and Israel have convergent aims in the region. The US seeks to deepen its control over the region's oil. Israel wants to create regional conditions that will allow it to complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
As a first step, both objectives would be served by removing four regimes--in Iran, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan--that still resisted US and Israeli ambitions in the region. Once these regimes had been removed, the US and Israel would carry the war into Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, to dismember them into smaller, weaker client states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization
Iraq and Afghanistan were chosen as the first targets--the easy points of entry into the war. They had been ravaged by years of war, weakened by internal divisions, and, in the case of Iraq, hollowed out by sanctions. It was believed that occupation would be easy. With friendly regimes in power, the US could start working on regime change in Iran and Syria.
Occupation was indeed a cake walk. But little else has been easy. The Sunni-led insurgency that began within weeks of the fall of Baghdad has succeeded in derailing US efforts to stabilize Iraq. Indeed, as Iraq has moved closer to a civil war over the past few months, pressures within the US are mounting for an American pull out. In Afghanistan too, after a period of initial stability, a Taliban resurgence--operating from liberated areas in neighboring Pakistan--now threatens NATO forces through much of eastern and southern Afghanistan.
In the meanwhile, the US-led war against the region has changed the map of the Middle East, but in unsettling ways. Not only has Iran gained deep influence over Iraq and Afghanistan, it can leverage this influence to raise steeply the cost of the US occupation in both countries. In the meanwhile, with help from Russia and China, Iran has built a military capability that can threaten US clients on the Arabian peninsula, shut off the Hormuz Straits to shipping, and launch missiles that can reach Israel. In addition, last summer, Hizbullah demonstrated a new form of guerilla war--with low-tech rockets, anti-tank weapons, and sophisticated intelligence gathering--that neutralized a determined Israeli offensive.
The Iraq Study Group has described the situation in Iraq "grave and deteriorating," and recommended a quick drawdown of US forces. It is unlikely that the President will take that advice. Instead, the US, Israel and Britain have for some time been working on an alternative plan when it appeared that their initial plans were being derailed. The US, Israel and Britain are now working to incite a civil war between Sunnis and Shias across the Middle East. As Jonathan Cook puts it, taking a leaf from Israeli experience in the West Bank and Gaza, they expect to create "controlled chaos" in the entire Islamic world.
The battle lines in this civil war have been drawn. The principal American-Israeli surrogates in this 'Islamic civil war' showed their colors last July when Israel launched devastating air attacks against Lebanese civilian targets in response to the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hizbullah. Almost instantly, Cairo, Riyadh and Amman condemned the Hizbullah action. On the opposite side there is the crescent of resurgent Shia power stretching from Lebanon, through Syria and Iraq, into Iran.
During his recent meetings with Israeli leaders and Sunni Arab potentates, according to a headline in NY Times, British prime minister Tony Blair was working to lay the groundwork for an "alliance against extremism." His plan is to erect an 'arc of moderation' against the Shia Crescent, with Iran as the principal "strategic threat" to Western imperial ambitions.
Iraq is already the theater of this 'Islamic civil war.' Last July, one of the aims of the Israeli destruction of Lebanon's civilian infrastructure was to spread this sectarian war to Lebanon. That gambit failed miserably. Now Saudi Arabia is threatening to expand its support for Sunni insurgents in Iraq and destabililize Iran by raising its oil production. More ominously, some of its Wahhabi clerical allies are trying to rouse both Arab fears of Persian domination and Sunni concerns about the ascendancy of the 'heretical' Shias.
The determining factor in this war will be the Sunni populations under the thumbs of the Arab potentates. It is doubtful if the anti-Persian and anti-Shia rhetoric of the Arab potentates will succeed in swinging them around to support governments they have long hated, especially now as their alliance with Israel becomes overt. There is also the risk that in fuelling the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, the Saudis will strengthen al-Qaida and their allies who are sworn to bring down the US-friendly Arab potentates. Moreover, if there is a real war in the region, the pseudo Arab states in the Gulf have no fighting ability they can bring to this conflict. In that event, does the US have the forces to occupy Iraq and also defend its Arab clients in the Gulf?
Paraphrasing prime minister Tony Blair, the NY Times writes, " the fate of the Middle East, ''for good or ill,'' would be felt around the world." It is unlikely that adding an 'Islamic civil war' to the dynamics of the region will work for the 'good' of the US, Israel or Britain.
M. Shahid Alam is professor of economics at Northeastern University, and author of Challenging the New Orientalism: Dissenting Essays on America's 'War Against Islam' (IPI Publications: 2006 forthcoming). He may be reached at [email protected].
� M. Shahid Alam
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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just remember if the Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers gave up their war there would have been no war. |
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Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: The deep south...
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
... Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers... |
This cracks me up every time. |
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twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
just remember if the Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers gave up their war there would have been no war. |
I think it's time to take old Yeller out back and shoot it, Joo. Not even the White House is pretending anymore. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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twg wrote: |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
just remember if the Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers gave up their war there would have been no war. |
I think it's time to take old Yeller out back and shoot it, Joo. Not even the White House is pretending anymore. |
that is very funny, but nevertheless the US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the mideast.
And the reason the US invaded the mideast is cause Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been out to get the US for a long time.
Iraq war or no Iraq war the US isn't going to accept it. The US may have to adjust the strategy but the war is still on. And it will be until the other side gives up their war.
At some point not so long for now the US will have new stuff and better stuff , enough to change the strategic equation Decisively in the US favor |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I've snippetted only a fraction of this very large article. It is an uncommon critique of the Bush administration, and an advocate of taking Islamism as seriously as we did Fascism. |
Read the whole thing - the guy should send his script to Hollywood, only place for it.
I might add to his, "an advocate of taking Islamism as seriously as we did Fascism." "and becoming facist in the process. Pure warmongering, black and white simpleton garbage he wrot.
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Bathists, Khomeni followers and Bin Laden supporters have been after the US for a long time
It is not warmongering to go after those who are out to get you. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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No joke: this morning, after I had checked out this board and was walking out of my home, I thought, "I wonder what happened to Joo. I haven't seen him post anything in the past month or two." And voila, this evening I see he's back.
Sweet. |
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twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
twg wrote: |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
just remember if the Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers gave up their war there would have been no war. |
I think it's time to take old Yeller out back and shoot it, Joo. Not even the White House is pretending anymore. |
that is very funny, but nevertheless the US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the mideast.
And the reason the US invaded the mideast is cause Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been out to get the US for a long time.
Iraq war or no Iraq war the US isn't going to accept it. The US may have to adjust the strategy but the war is still on. And it will be until the other side gives up their war.
At some point not so long for now the US will have new stuff and better stuff , enough to change the strategic equation Decisively in the US favor |
And the unicorns and fairies will come out of hiding and we will all play ring-around-the-rosey with Santa Claus.
You just gotta believe! |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Democracy is not a route to freedom�not for the Greeks who voted to kill Socrates |
Saying that democratic Athens wasn't free becuause they killed Socrates is a little like saying that Australia isn't an English-speaking country because there are people there who can't speak English. In comparison to about 99% of the world's countries, Australia is English-speaking. And while I'm not an expert in antiquity, I'm guessing that, in comparison to almost anywhere else in the vicinity, Athens experienced freedom.
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The Islamic Totalitarian movement remains�distributed, without the strong central command Al Qaeda once had, but still energized�and it appears like hidden gushers, the jihad bursting forth in seemingly random places by internal pressure from an underground stream.
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Well, except for the fact that there are at least two major factions of this supposed movement, Sunni and Shiite, and they spend at least as much time killing each other as they do killing the infidels. At best, I'd compare the "Islamic Totalitarian movement" to international Communism in the years following the Sino-Soviet split, and even that is probably assuming a greater degree of cohesion than is warranted. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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twg wrote: |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
twg wrote: |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
just remember if the Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers gave up their war there would have been no war. |
I think it's time to take old Yeller out back and shoot it, Joo. Not even the White House is pretending anymore. |
that is very funny, but nevertheless the US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the mideast.
And the reason the US invaded the mideast is cause Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been out to get the US for a long time.
Iraq war or no Iraq war the US isn't going to accept it. The US may have to adjust the strategy but the war is still on. And it will be until the other side gives up their war.
At some point not so long for now the US will have new stuff and better stuff , enough to change the strategic equation Decisively in the US favor |
And the unicorns and fairies will come out of hiding and we will all play ring-around-the-rosey with Santa Claus.
You just gotta believe! |
Decapitation strikes against a regime never got easier. Bunkers don�t help.
They can build deeper but the US can always go higher.
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Democracy is not a route to freedom—not for the Greeks who voted to kill Socrates, nor for the Romans who acclaimed Caesar, nor for the Germans who elected Hitler.
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That struck me as an odd thing to say.
I think what he is trying to express is a criticism of Bush's idea of bringing democracy to the area is not a panacea because 'the people' can still make mistakes. But I don't think Bush believes it is a panacea. It would be a step in the direction of giving people a legitimate outlet for their desires to be taken into consideration by governments that are at present corrupt and often driven by flakey ideologies.
My main complaint about the article was that the first half was a very long introduction to the second half where the writer seems to be saying that we are killing the wrong people--we should be killing Iranians instead of Iraqis. I'm not yet convinced that an invasion of a third Middle Eastern country at this time is the solution to the problem. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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US Lawmakers Apologize In Torture Case
By DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writer
Thu Oct 18, 6:14 PM ET
WASHINGTON - Members of Congress apologized Thursday to a Canadian engineer seized by U.S. officials and taken to Syria, where he was tortured.
Maher Arar said he was ensnared in an "immoral" terrorism-fighting program known as extraordinary rendition.
The 37-year-old appeared before a joint hearing of House subcommittees by video from Ottawa, Canada.
He remains on a U.S. government "watch" list.
"Let me personally give you what our government has not: an apology," said Rep. Bill Delahunt, D-Mass., as he opened the hearing. "Let me apologize to you and the Canadian people for our government's role in ... a mistake."
Arar said he was grateful for the apologies, but hoped the Bush administration would do so, too
"Let me be clear: I am not a terrorist, I am not a member of al-Qaida or any terror group. I am a father, a husband, and an engineer. I am also a victim of the immoral practice of extraordinary rendition," he said.
Arar said he was thrown in a tiny cell and tortured into falsely confessing that he had trained at a terrorist camp in Afghanistan.
"Life in that cell was hell. I spent 10 months and 10 days in that grave," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/torture_rendition;_ylt=AvnScnXXhssnQZLz8plDXzMDW7oF |
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twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Decapitation strikes against a regime never got easier. Bunkers don�t help. |
But state sponsored terrorism does! Wheee! |
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