Korean Job Discussion Forums

[periwinkle]

I'm editing an audio script right now, and it's driving me crazy. You'd think the biggest problem would be collocations, awkward noun or verb choices, or awkward phrasing, right? Nope. The presentation would be nearly perfect, except that I have had to change "a" to "the" or add "the" literally hundreds of times. I don't know how the author can be such a great writer, but make a mistake like this.

Anyone else have this problem? I've edited this girl's stuff before, and she doesn't seem able to correct the problem (I'm not actually in the position to teach her otherwise, either...). Anyway, I've noticed this problem with a lot of my students. It might seem minor, but I've got a lot of pages to edit...

[Ya-ta Boy]

I bought a text book to help with teaching article usage. In the back of the book were the 50 rules governing the use of a, an and the. (That's not counting the exceptions.) Too complicated. Someone said the articles are the most complicated and difficult part of learning English for speakers without a similar grammar structure in their native language.

[jennateacher]

The grammar lab series has a good explanation of Articles. They are one of my pet peeves in teaching here. My students told me they do not use a similar concept in Korean grammar so they do not think of it when using English.

Good Luck, keep drilling!

[SuperHero]

Order of Acquisition

simply put, you can teach this all you want. But one of the last things acquired when learning English is articles. Thus you'll have near native speakers who still screw it up.

[periwinkle]

[Hotpants]

You have to appreciate how hard it is for people who don't have articles in their own language to put them into English. However, when they've been studying English for so long, and eternally make article errors, it is frustrating for a teacher.

I suggest you don't correct the articles, but put a big, red circle on the page wherever there is an article error and get the student to insert the corrections for herself, otherwise she doesn't have any chance learn for herself.

The only 'success' I've had with changing article omission, was when I had a 12 week writing course with just 3 university students. Each time I saw them writing a sentence, I would cough and say 'noun'. At first, they just couldn't get it, but I kept on like this for 12 whole weeks, and by about week 10, they were putting in articles before nouns by themselves. The amount of attention they each needed to receive to try to change their article problem suggests that it's hard for most teachers to have such time to be able to tackle it. It's a really hard one, but also reminds teachers of young children how important it is to present new vocabulary attached with an article.

[Adventurer]

I think one of the most common situations where you see indefinite articles are when they precede an adjective. I am more of a speaking coach at my current hagwon, and we are told to avoid teaching grammar.
However, since I find this to be one of the most common instances where an indefinite article must be used i.e. before an adjective it somehow resonates with many of the Koreans learning the language, because it creates a certain mind pattern for them, I think. For example, explaining all the ways it is used would be complicated. People should focus on generalities rather than the exceptions.

[excitinghead]

Like others pointed out, Korean doesn't have articles so it's naturally difficult. Having said that, it has some things which many Korean books call "particles" instead, which should be just as difficult for non-Asians as articles are for Koreans, but aren't; I had no problem with them after about a year of studying, maybe sooner. They just come naturally with use.

I think the difference is that I'm in Korea using...okay, at least hearing natural Korean , but English learners here...?Jeez. The simple phrase like "I'm going to the bank" for instance, is something I'd say and hear often back in NZ and I think a Korean would eventually be able to figure out why I'd say "the" instead of '"a" after coming across it often enough, but come to think of it I've never seem or heard that natural sentance in an English book here after nearly 7 years. That's why I try to and encourage students to use ESL things from English-speaking countries as much as possible.

[tomato]

An ESL teacher in Japan said that she read the students a story which started out something like this:

"A man walked down the street.
The man went into a store."

She had the dangdest time convincing the students that "a man" and "the man" were not two different men.

[robot]

I also have the book Ya-ta's likely talking about.

128 pages of rules for using a, an, the -- way too complicated for anyone other than advanced students.

Luckily, the basic few rules actually cover about 90% of their use.

I rarely teach articles, though. Students will be understood without listener confusion if they omit or use the wrong articles. There are a hundred better ways to use class time, a hundred more important lessons they should learn first.

Here's the book though. I used it mostly with quite fluent European speakers of English:



http://www.amazon.com/Book-Practice-toward-Mastering/dp/0472086391/sr=8-1/qid=1167188143/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3171765-6201608?ie=UTF8&s=books

ROBT.

[Optional Toaster]

No real articles in Korean...so it is pretty tough to have to use them. I like the chapter on articles from The ELT Grammar Book by Richard Firsten. Short but concise. Not pushing the book or anything but it was helpful.

[postfundie]

In Spain my students didn't have near the problem with the word 'the' because it's quite similar in English..It's understandably harder for koreans...after explaining some of the rules they inevitably bring up exceptions...I just lead them in a little prayer to the English god to accept the exception into their heart. I made a lot of progress in Spanish when every time a rule was broken I just started saying 'Yes Spanish God..I'll do what you say...I don't understand your supernatural plan but I accept it"

[ajuma]

Collins CoBuild English Usage has good sections on the use of articles under the appropriate headings (a, an, the). It doesn't load the learner down with a lot of rules, but gives them the basics.

I agree with Hotpants in that it's pretty worthless for YOU to correct their article errors. If they have to correct "It's dog." by writing "It's a dog." again and again, they'll learn it...eventually!!

I also tell them that they're lucky because English (unlike French and German) isn't article/gender specific.

[antoniothegreat]

i know this is a bad generalization, but i think a big part of the problem is this. Koreans are too focused on completing the curriculum. they are given too short of a time to learn articles, and i bet often the teachers themselves dont fully understand them. in my textbook, it has garbage like "my dog is cute to me, he waves his tail to me when i am near." teaching something like that, how would their book ever explain articles?

they dont spend enough time on it, then the teachers dont know it well enough, and then their is the big problem that when they speak english, they think they still have to apply korean rules and ignore what korean rules allow them to ignore.

why do they say things like:
i like apple
i gave scruffy dog meat
john dog is cute
here is seoul
Shaun teacher

they take how they do things in Korean and put it directly into English. These mistakes are understandable, but no one pounds it into them that they are wrong. and they really seem to think that saying those types of things is ok. i have told many koreans you cannot say 'here is seoul." if you are there, you say "this is seoul." if you are on the phone say "im in seoul." their reply "but in korean, we say yeogineun seoul." and i say "i know, but you are not speaking korean." "but..."

i know i am not a genious, but i dont say "cheogineun hanna burger king." because in english i can say "there is a burger king." i understand the rules of english do not apply to other languages.

anyways, i seem to be writing a lot of bad things, maybe it's too late and i am too hungry, or my brain cells are still dying from being in the same building as kim jong tae at that suwon bs meeting.

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Precisely. They make these errors BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE.

Your language is merely a tool for them to make money, it has no intrinisic value to them so they remember the parts that make them minimally understood and forget the rest.