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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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 Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Well accept for Kyoto what are you taking about?
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I couldn't have said it any better.  
Welcome back, Joo. Where ya' been? Get a date or something? |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| US's arrogant, imperialist foreign policy is a sure sign that one is a leftist. |
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By the way, old chappie, when does a phrase (rather than a complete sentence) qualify as a quote? I see you're as dyslexic and bad-assed as ever.
The full sentence was, "But there are many, many posters on this board who seem to think that opposing the US's arrogant, imperialist foreign policy is a sure sign that one is a leftist."
You teach English, right?
How are your students' TOEIC scores, anyway? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| US's arrogant, imperialist foreign policy is a sure sign that one is a leftist. |
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By the way, old chappie, when does a phrase (rather than a complete sentence) qualify as a quote? I see you're as dyslexic and bad-assed as ever.
The full sentence was, "But there are many, many posters on this board who seem to think that opposing the US's arrogant, imperialist foreign policy is a sure sign that one is a leftist."
You teach English, right?
How are your students' TOEIC scores, anyway? |
I see you are complaining about a quoting error instead of defending your arguments maybe it is cause you can't really support and defend what you say. That is ok. But that is about it isn't it? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| And here's a myth I'd like to dispel for you: being an opponent of the left does not mean that you are freedom loving. |
And here's a myth I'd like to dispel for you, just cause you are of the left doesn't mean you are freedom loving. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I see you are complaining about a quoting error instead of defending your arguments maybe it is cause you can't really support and defend what you say. That is ok. But that is about it isn't it? |
Absolutely. You've caught me in one of my dishonest, hating the kinder, gentler US brand of imperialism moments, Joo. It's impossible to get a single sneaky leftist point past your keen observations.
I surrender to your superior intellect. If fact, I encourage all dastardly leftists to do the same immediately. It's hopeless to oppose you. And they're just pissing in their lattes if they believe otherwise.
It is impossible to refute your infallible reasoning (and your infinite verbiage). So infinite, in fact, that I expect the US masscare of Iraq will be completed before you even reach the end of your argument.
Then, what will you do? Wait, don't tell me. I already know. You'll just do a "find and replace" command substituting the name of the current victim of US generosity with the name of the newest victim. Then you can recycle your already perfect arguments in another setting and earn extra points for recycling too.
Or, maybe that will only require doing a "find and replace" of the letter 'q' with the letter 'n', n'est pas? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolutely. You've caught me in one of my dishonest, hating the kinder, gentler US brand of imperialism moments, Joo. It's impossible to get a single sneaky leftist point past your keen observations. |
| Quote: |
It is impossible to refute your infallible reasoning (and your infinite verbiage). So infinite, in fact, that I expect the US masscare of Iraq will be completed before you even reach the end of your argument.
Then, what will you do? Wait, don't tell me. I already know. You'll just do a "find and replace" command substituting the name of the current victim of US generosity with the name of the newest victim. Then you can recycle your already perfect arguments in another setting and earn extra points for recycling too.
Or, maybe that will only require doing a "find and replace" of the letter 'q' with the letter 'n', n'est pas? |
The US action in Iraq stoped Saddam from commiting anymore masscares and not only in Iraq . Saddam killed 300,000 in 20 years just in Iraq , what was he going to do over the next 20 years. His sons were coming up next. More important what would he do if he got free? Answer that before you go on. 75% of the Iraqi population is glad the US got rid of Saddam. that number may not want US troops in Iraq but the Iraqi government who they voted for does. Do you really think the Kurds or Shias wish that the US had not gotten rid of Saddam? You think they wish the US had not invaded? Answer that too.
Morever again Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been at the US for a long time. If they had given up their war then there would have been no war. If they don't want to give up their war then anything the US does to force them to is ok, if they want their war then they deserve anything the US can throw at them. It is not warmongering if you are going after those who are out to get you.
1) The US is not responsible for those the insurgents kill
and 2) insurgents killed don't count.
Saddam ought to have given up his war then there would have been no war. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Absolutely. You've caught me in one of my dishonest, hating the kinder, gentler US brand of imperialism moments, Joo. It's impossible to get a single sneaky leftist point past your keen observations. |
| Quote: |
It is impossible to refute your infallible reasoning (and your infinite verbiage). So infinite, in fact, that I expect the US masscare of Iraq will be completed before you even reach the end of your argument.
Then, what will you do? Wait, don't tell me. I already know. You'll just do a "find and replace" command substituting the name of the current victim of US generosity with the name of the newest victim. Then you can recycle your already perfect arguments in another setting and earn extra points for recycling too.
Or, maybe that will only require doing a "find and replace" of the letter 'q' with the letter 'n', n'est pas? |
The US action in Iraq stoped Saddam from commiting anymore masscares and not only in Iraq . Saddam killed 300,000 in 20 years just in Iraq , what was he going to do over the next 20 years. His sons were coming up next. More important what would he do if he got free? Answer that before you go on. 75% of the Iraqi population is glad the US got rid of Saddam. that number may not want US troops in Iraq but the Iraqi government who they voted for does. Do you really think the Kurds or Shias wish that the US had not gotten rid of Saddam? You think they wish the US had not invaded? Answer that too.
Morever again Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been at the US for a long time. If they had given up their war then there would have been no war. If they don't want to give up their war then anything the US does to force them to is ok, if they want their war then they deserve anything the US can throw at them. It is not warmongering if you are going after those who are out to get you.
1) The US is not responsible for those the insurgents kill
and 2) insurgents killed don't count.
Saddam ought to have given up his war then there would have been no war. |
The brilliance of your reasoning CANNOT be defeated by mere mortals.
And they're still pissing in their lattes if they think otherwise. I'm nominating you for sainthood based on your unusually refined humanitarian values. I know you're a very humble and modest saint, so I really should ask for permission first. Is that OK? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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The brilliance of your reasoning CANNOT be defeated by mere mortals.
And they're still pissing in their lattes if they think otherwise. I'm nominating you for sainthood based on your unusually refined humanitarian values. I know you're a very humble and modest saint, so I really should ask for permission first. Is that OK? |
The reasoning brillant enough to dust off fans of counterpunch. If you have such good arguments then you should be able to answer the questions above no problem. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
The brilliance of your reasoning CANNOT be defeated by mere mortals.
And they're still pissing in their lattes if they think otherwise. I'm nominating you for sainthood based on your unusually refined humanitarian values. I know you're a very humble and modest saint, so I really should ask for permission first. Is that OK? |
The reasoning brillant enough to dust off fans of counterpunch. |
Touche. I, nay probably ALL dastardly Leftists (and left-handed people even) are completely undone by your debating brilliance. We surrender and ask only to dwell in your divine company. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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So this is what R.S. does when someone challenges his position? All sarcasm and no substance?
Hardly surprising.
Joo, you are arguing with a guy who sits with the smug, shrill crowd of chanters who will not and can not stop chanting their mantra and listen for even a moment. They fault the United States for fabricating pretext after pretext to justify all that has gone wrong in world affairs in order to keep greedy corporate interests satisfied. According to them, the United States fabricated the Cold War, perpetrated 9/11. And according to them, the United States (and behind it, Western Civilization) is irredeemably corrupt and malicious, a plague upon the Earth.
They castigate "the West" for simplitically essentializing and reducing Others. But they do not apparently object to Others' essentializing and reducing the West -- and particularly the United States. They criticize the United States for advancing simplistic, monocausal Sovietological interpretations during the Cold War. But they themselves advance simplistic, monocausal explanations for United States foreign policy: the military-industrial complex conpspiracy, for instance.
They are, in any case, neither willing nor able to see anything else besides this worldview -- not even for a nanosecond.
Like fundamentalists, or any other extremist, they recognize no problems or faults in their own position, and they force this angry, bitter worldview onto others as if they had discovered and articulated the word of God Himself. And speaking of He Who Has No Name, they are at least as judgmental as the Old Testament's Yahweh. Indeed, they have judged that the United States deserves only their contempt -- and this is exactly what they give it. (Just look at the sneering adjectives R.S. selected above or any other of his examplars.)
And they are the ones who dream of smiting the United States and then replacing the existing state of affairs with the politics of blame and revenge, class-conflict, and, indeed, anarchy. This they call "liberal enlightenment..."
Ignore them. They are malcontents, full of bile. They offer nothing of substance to these discussions. And they celebtrate 9/11 as well as the current mess in Iraq, remember?
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
So this is what R.S. does when someone challenges his position? All sarcasm and no substance?
Hardly surprising.
Joo, you are arguing with a guy who sits with the smug, shrill crowd of chanters who will not and can not stop chanting their mantra and listen for even a moment. They fault the United States for fabricating pretext after pretext to justify all that has gone wrong in world affairs in order to keep greedy corporate interests satisfied. According to them, the United States fabricated the Cold War, perpetrated 9/11. And according to them, the United States (and behind it, Western Civilization) is irredeemably corrupt and malicious, a plague upon the Earth.
They are neither willing nor able to see anything else besides this worldview -- not even for a nanosecond.
Like fundamentalists, or any other extremist, they force this angry, bitter worldview onto others as if they had discovered and articulated the word of God Himself. And speaking of He Who Has No Name, they are at least as judgmental as the Old Testament's Yahweh. Indeed, they have judged that the United States deserves only their contempt -- and this is exactly what they give it. (Just look at the sneering adjectives R.S. selected above or any other of his examplars.)
And they are the ones who dream of smiting the United States and then replacing the existing state of affairs with the politics of blame and revenge, class-conflict, and, indeed, anarchy. This they call "liberal enlightenment..."
Ignore them. They are malcontents, full of bile. They offer nothing of substance to these discussions. |
Thank you so kindly, Mr. Gopher. If I didn't check in with you from time to time, I would have no idea whatsoever, what I think or believe. You are like a beacon in the night -- like a star over Bethlehem leading to divinely revealed truth.
P.S. Love your avatar. It is YOU. Could you tell me what movie that pic is from?
PPS. But I really don't think you should be comparing me to Yahweh. I'm not even Jewish. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here is your position, R.S. You do not need me to remind you of it. You can find it in any antiEstablishment book or Hollywood film, like Phillip Agee, William Blum, Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, or Oliver Stone, for instance.
Or seek out whichever professor it was who indoctrinated you with this unimaginatve, unoriginal garbage that makes Tacitus look like the Caesars' apologist...
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| ...the US's arrogant, imperialist foreign policy...this monstruous, anti-humanitarian foreign policy that primarily serves the interests of the wealthy, big-business socialists under the phony guise...making US citizens ever-more despised...the US's sick foreign policy. |
Good day, R.S. You may return to mindlessly nodding your head "yes" as you peruse Counterpunch or Third-World Traveller.com or whereever it is you get your "analysis" these days now... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
The brilliance of your reasoning CANNOT be defeated by mere mortals.
And they're still pissing in their lattes if they think otherwise. I'm nominating you for sainthood based on your unusually refined humanitarian values. I know you're a very humble and modest saint, so I really should ask for permission first. Is that OK? |
The reasoning brillant enough to dust off fans of counterpunch. |
Touche. I, nay probably ALL dastardly Leftists (and left-handed people even) are completely undone by your debating brilliance. We surrender and ask only to dwell in your divine company. |
Let me explain
I am against war to steal Iraqis� oil
I have nothing against the Muslim religion.
If the mideast doesn�t like capitalism that is their choice
If they don�t want to sell the US oil then the US will have to adjust
I support the US defending the Kurds � what religion are they?
I support Mommod Abbas
I admire Sufis
I wouldn�t care if there was a mosque next to my house.
I think the US ought to invite Muslim missionaries to the US. After checking out their politics and going through all security procedures.
But I don�t think the US has to tolerate war against it by Al Qaeda, Bathists, of those who love Khomeini. And anything the US does against them is ok with me. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote,
Ignore them. They are malcontents, full of bile. They offer nothing of substance to these discussions. And they celebtrate 9/11 as well as the current mess in Iraq, remember? |
Nobody here "celebrating" 9/11. Just a whole lot of defending the proper and truly enlightened response of NOT taking away freedom from ourselves for the sake of this tragedy.
This statement is precisely what's wrong with your "all knowing" philosopher king attitude. You haven't come out of the cave yet and I don't care what your "position" is, left , right, up or down BUT this consigning of other viewpoints as mere dross, as but "ignorance", kookiness or whatever is the word of the day -- IS WHAT IS WRONG. Not just you but those making policy decisions in America. They have no understanding or wish to embrace, listen, respect other view points. They , like Bush, consign it all to mere pontificary and then do their own damn thing anyway. It is distain and a mere brush of the hand of power......it is ignorance and no nearer to wisdom than that guy trying to climb through the eye of the needle.
I suggest the difference is one of loving freedom in all its aspects, loving diversity in all its aspects, loving a world of variety and not monochrome vision.
I will post something of substance later, immortal America words that you should understand much deeper Gopher, deeper than the shallowness of your hole and the "stamped" "made in the ruling elites justificational obfuscational academia" of your sources. I also think you should reread Vidal's great interview of post 9/11. It might seem like a needed cool breeze...
DD
So please stop the typical, wave of the hand defense........... You'd be a much wiser person if you varied your diet. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Nobody here "celebrating" 9/11. Just a whole lot of... |
...halo grabbing, as my friend Urban Myth might say -- and specifically substituting "you" for "they" in this case, Ddeubel. You also present the crudest dichotomies (freedom- and diversity-loving Ddeubel vs. the rest of us who love slavery and neverending racism...)
And while you are here, let me ask you to clarify something you said elsewhere. You assumed your usual defensive position (that is, defensive of anyone who is not or better yet who opposes the United States) when I commented that Mexico's political system and economy were broken on another thread.
You complained that I too easily dismissed "a very old and settled culture."
I found this fascinating. Mexico as we know it today is indeed a five-hundred-year-old culture. It was forged by military conquest and colonialism -- in fact, we call this "the Conquest." Hispanics and their mestizo offspring not only displaced/ensalved/annihilated millions of natives, but they marginalized and denied statehood and culture to those natives who survived.
And you exalt modern Mexico as "a very old and settled culture."
But, on the other hand, you rail against Israel. And whatever Tel Aviv's crimes against its neighbors may be, the Jewish state has not treated neighboring Arabs as severly as your "very old and settled" Mexico has treated its natives for half a millennium.
How is this not Ddeubletalk, Ddeubel? Do you hold any principles that you apply evenly? For all your protesting that you love freedom and human rights, I have a hard time listening to someone who fantasized burying Pinochet and Kissinger alive and then digging them up every-once-in-a-while just to make them suffer all the more when you reburied them...
And, in any case, do not come here on this forum, where you have defended not only Hezbollah but also al Qaeda, and tell me that you do not celebrate 9/11 or at least think that America had it coming. Because some of us know your position better than you do apparently...
If I am wrong feel free to clarify. I have articulated several issues in this post. Please explain.
P.S. You may want to use something besides "philosopher-king" to ridicule me with, as I consider such a descriptor a great compliment. Even better for my ego would be "warrior-philosopher-king," but I doubt you would comply.  |
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