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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Well as we have seen from the crazies on this board, there is often little rhyme or reason to draconian drug, sex, speech, organizing laws. With nutbars like some of Dave's members we would all be in Gitmo facing morality, sedition, and terrorism charges.
Again the only sane law is one that respects consenting, again for the hard of hearing: CONSENTING ADULTS, and punishes those that exploit, torture, kidnap, molest those that don't choose to take part in the sex industry. |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your well written post, jaganath69. We need more like these to make Dave's more bearable and interesting.
I agree with you that forced prostitution of adults and child prostitution would not end even if all foreign sex tourists got locked up in a prison tomorrow. I am sure that Thailand's domestic demand for these kinds of services is more than enough to keep the sex industry running and profitable. Naturally I know that Thailand is not alone with this problem, but I only commented about it because this thread is about Thailand. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Jag, why do you even try? Seriously. Do you think you will ever convince me that men who have to BUY sex are not pathetic? Sorry, if one of my friends ever bought a *beep* Id drop him as a friend. I have no use for such losers. Give all the examples of models you find proper. I hope that you dont give whatever you catch to your wife. Even if it was through "proper" channels. I wont be spinning any yarns for you, im not your little monkey here to amuse you, nor will I ever consider anyone who buys sex from a *beep* to be anything but the worst sort of vile garbage around. |
Jinju:
Out of curiousity, do you feel the same way about people who buy pornography, which also involves the payment of money for the performance of sexual acts? |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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All men (and women) who pay for sex are losers? Then how about the handicapped people who want to have sex but are unable to find willing partners? Wasn't it Maslow who wrote about hierarchy of needs? *checks* Yes, he lists sex as a basic physiological need. Of course human beings can live without sex, but...
I don't know if the practice described in this article is up-to-date anymore, but I post it here anyways.
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Australian and Danish Governments Providing Prostitutes for the Disabled
HOBART, September 30, 2005 - According to an apparently unembarrassed official of the Department of Health and Human Services in the Australian state of Tasmania, guidelines have been established that allow care givers to organise visits for disabled clients to Hobart�s local brothels.
The terms �hooker or �street walker� have long been taboo as being insensitive. Now �prostitute,� is no longer acceptable either and the properly affirming phrase �sex trade worker,� is used to describe the world�s oldest profession. This new nomenclature is especially important now that publicly funded social workers can � and do � arrange for their intellectually disabled charges to make visits to the ladies in order to exercise their sexual �rights.�
Disability Services state manager Michael Plaister said to The Mercury newspaper, �What we've got is a longstanding policy based around the principles of human rights that people with disabilities have the same rights as anyone else in the community and are entitled to be assisted to exercise those rights.�
Disability Services' guidelines include a section developed in 2001, titled �Access to a Sex Worker.� It states, �Sex workers should be seen as one of a number of options to consider when supporting people with disabilities to make decisions about their sexual needs.� The report in The Mercury says that though the men usually pay for the services themselves, guidelines exist for social service funds to be made available should they be strapped for cash.
A spokesman for Advocacy Tasmania, a non-profit organisation that provides legal services to elderly and disabled people, said that people with disabilities had a right to express their sexuality and to have a sex life.
The �right� to fornication has its own internal logic and social workers in Denmark as well as Australia have followed it industriously to its conclusion in the care of disabled clients.
In Denmark, the government has arranged a more regimented system in which the social services pays for �sex workers� to service disabled men twice a month. The Danish guidelines state, �It could be of great importance that the carer speaks to the prostitute together with the person in their care, to help them express their wishes.�
The contradiction between governments fighting the exploitation and trafficking of women and paying for those women to service men under public care has not escaped everyone. Danish Social-Democrat spokesman Kristen Brosboel said: �We spend a large proportion of our taxes rescuing women from prostitution. But at the same time we officially encourage carers to help contact with prostitutes.�
As in Australia, however, official arguments in Denmark against the practice will clash with the obvious problem that prostitution is not illegal in either country. As is common in many �enlightened� western nations, only living off the profits of prostitution is illegal, not the practice itself.
The problem rests upon a contradictory notion that there is such a thing as a �right� to sexual relations outside marriage. This idea, that will appear bizarre to many, is now common in governments and civil service circles around the world and is harmfully effecting a wide range of legislation.
In Canada, the growing acceptance of prostitution by government is only a small part of a general coarsening of social interaction. This week, Justice Minister Irwin Cotler used the idea of a �right� to fornication as the argument to defeat a bill to raise the age of sexual consent by children from 14 � one of the lowest in the world � to 16. (Article borrowed from here) |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulFinn wrote: |
All men (and women) who pay for sex are losers? Then how about the handicapped people who want to have sex but are unable to find willing partners? Wasn't it Maslow who wrote about hierarchy of needs? *checks* Yes, he lists sex as a basic physiological need. Of course human beings can live without sex, but...
I don't know if the practice described in this article is up-to-date anymore, but I post it here anyways.
| Quote: |
Australian and Danish Governments Providing Prostitutes for the Disabled
HOBART, September 30, 2005 - According to an apparently unembarrassed official of the Department of Health and Human Services in the Australian state of Tasmania, guidelines have been established that allow care givers to organise visits for disabled clients to Hobart�s local brothels.
The terms �hooker or �street walker� have long been taboo as being insensitive. Now �prostitute,� is no longer acceptable either and the properly affirming phrase �sex trade worker,� is used to describe the world�s oldest profession. This new nomenclature is especially important now that publicly funded social workers can � and do � arrange for their intellectually disabled charges to make visits to the ladies in order to exercise their sexual �rights.�
Disability Services state manager Michael Plaister said to The Mercury newspaper, �What we've got is a longstanding policy based around the principles of human rights that people with disabilities have the same rights as anyone else in the community and are entitled to be assisted to exercise those rights.�
Disability Services' guidelines include a section developed in 2001, titled �Access to a Sex Worker.� It states, �Sex workers should be seen as one of a number of options to consider when supporting people with disabilities to make decisions about their sexual needs.� The report in The Mercury says that though the men usually pay for the services themselves, guidelines exist for social service funds to be made available should they be strapped for cash.
A spokesman for Advocacy Tasmania, a non-profit organisation that provides legal services to elderly and disabled people, said that people with disabilities had a right to express their sexuality and to have a sex life.
The �right� to fornication has its own internal logic and social workers in Denmark as well as Australia have followed it industriously to its conclusion in the care of disabled clients.
In Denmark, the government has arranged a more regimented system in which the social services pays for �sex workers� to service disabled men twice a month. The Danish guidelines state, �It could be of great importance that the carer speaks to the prostitute together with the person in their care, to help them express their wishes.�
The contradiction between governments fighting the exploitation and trafficking of women and paying for those women to service men under public care has not escaped everyone. Danish Social-Democrat spokesman Kristen Brosboel said: �We spend a large proportion of our taxes rescuing women from prostitution. But at the same time we officially encourage carers to help contact with prostitutes.�
As in Australia, however, official arguments in Denmark against the practice will clash with the obvious problem that prostitution is not illegal in either country. As is common in many �enlightened� western nations, only living off the profits of prostitution is illegal, not the practice itself.
The problem rests upon a contradictory notion that there is such a thing as a �right� to sexual relations outside marriage. This idea, that will appear bizarre to many, is now common in governments and civil service circles around the world and is harmfully effecting a wide range of legislation.
In Canada, the growing acceptance of prostitution by government is only a small part of a general coarsening of social interaction. This week, Justice Minister Irwin Cotler used the idea of a �right� to fornication as the argument to defeat a bill to raise the age of sexual consent by children from 14 � one of the lowest in the world � to 16. (Article borrowed from here) |
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I'm very curious about jinju's views on this, and I hope he shares them with us soon. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Heres my opinion. Theres no such thing as the right to fornication. What kind of an idiotic, PC garbage idea is this? Nature knows of no such concept. if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. Not everyone gets to pass on his genes.
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| Then how about the handicapped people who want to have sex but are unable to find willing partners? |
But who on this board is handicapped anyway? If you are unable to find a willing partner maybe that says something about you. And if you are not handicapped, then yeah, you are a loser. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Heres my opinion. Theres no such thing as the right to fornication. What kind of an idiotic, PC garbage idea is this? Nature knows of no such concept. if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. Not everyone gets to pass on his genes. |
Interesting.... So how about the althletes who take part in the para-olympics? They are certainly fit. If they feel like having some sex, do you think they should be allowed access to a sex worker? I've worked with guys with learning disabilities who could out-walk me, and are in pretty good physical shape. However, they were seriously autistic. They also got very horny from time to time (as we all do) and then very frustrated at not having an outlet, so to speak. Do you think they should be allowed to access sex workers? And please keep in mind, that most of these guys are not interested in reproducing, they just want to have sex! |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Jinju wrote:
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| if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. |
Well, taking your own social darwinist rationale to its logical conclusion: if some people are unable to find any other type of work, why shouldn't they be allowed to sell their bodies? Animals do what they have to in order to survive.
And by the way, I notice you dodged my last question, but I'm still curious. What ARE your views on pornography? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Jinju wrote:
| Quote: |
| if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. |
Well, taking your own social darwinist rationale to its logical conclusion: if some people are unable to find any other type of work, why shouldn't they be allowed to sell their bodies? Animals do what they have to in order to survive.
And by the way, I notice you dodged my last question, but I'm still curious. What ARE your views on pornography? |
let them sell. Im not making moral judgements on whores. Just on the losers who need them. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Jinju wrote:
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| if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. |
Well, taking your own social darwinist rationale to its logical conclusion: if some people are unable to find any other type of work, why shouldn't they be allowed to sell their bodies? Animals do what they have to in order to survive.
And by the way, I notice you dodged my last question, but I'm still curious. What ARE your views on pornography? |
Notice that he hasn't yet produced a single valid argument as to why he is against this? There are all manner of personal forces at work here, but for nigh over eleven pages our friend has been reiterating his mantra or disgust and personal loathing. I've written two papers on this issue and a few more on the obliquely connected concept of AIDS in the region, yet he persists in having to reduce it to the obscure concept of the 'right to fornication' and labeling it as PC crap. Where the concern from other adults actions stems from, I will never know. Its certain nobody will convince him otherwise, that is his right, but as per the last few thousand words he fails to articulate why in anything other than the basest manner. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
Jinju wrote:
| Quote: |
| if you are not fit enough, you dont get to fornicate. This is where the whole idea of survival of the fittest comes from. |
Well, taking your own social darwinist rationale to its logical conclusion: if some people are unable to find any other type of work, why shouldn't they be allowed to sell their bodies? Animals do what they have to in order to survive.
And by the way, I notice you dodged my last question, but I'm still curious. What ARE your views on pornography? |
let them sell. Im not making moral judgements on whores. Just on the losers who need them. |
I'm not sure if "let then sell" refers to my point about prostitutes, or my question about pornography. I'm guessing the former. So I'll ask my question again...
Jinju, what is your opinion of people who buy pornography? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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kinda related..
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| In the mid-1990s, changes to law enforcement strategies in New York City pushed many women working in the sex trade off of the streets and into the indoors. Increasing numbers of women began advertising sexual services in bars, over the Internet, and in print media, and conducting their work in their homes, hotels, and brothels. This study uses in-depth interviews and participant observation to examine the impact of this change on the life and work of women working in New York�s indoor sex trade. A critical finding is that as women move their work indoors, they begin to conceive of sex work as a profession and a career, rather than just a short-term means of employment. This �professional and careerist orientation� may have significant implications for the length of women�s tenure in sex work and ultimately, for their ability to exit the trade completely. |
http://www.sociology.columbia.edu/pdf-files/murphyvenkarticle.pdf |
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Bondrock
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
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according to Jinju's logic...
survival of the fittest rules....
but in the human world cunning usually makes one last longer than bulk or brawn.
yet, sometimes a lucky blow by a handicapped person could kill a genius...so survival of the fittest is sometimes based on chance or circumstance...
so, who is the fittest?
last person standing?
someone with money?
sex workers who need to eat?
jinju? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Probably prompted by some junta general whose niece ended up hugging a grease pole in Patpong or Soi Cowboy. And, no, I haven't been but have a good friend who's been. He didn't partake because of the HIV rampage there; just oogled. 
BJWD:
Love your self-righteous, postcolonialist little rant. Fact is, as others have said here, most of the johns are Thai men. And the second biggest so-called offenders are Japanese men who even have their own street of private clubs. So all the Westerners are boffing 16 year-olds? Nothing like a gross generalization, eh? The culture is very sexually tolerant despite what you might wish to believe. Nice try. Next time get your facts straight first.  |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to me that going to prostitutes is just a normal thing in a lot of countries. That sure seems to be the case in a lot of Asia. From what I understand, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Pakistan, and others have a lot of men who go regularly, a lot more than where I'm from as far as I know. (There were no brothels in my hometown of 12,000 people.) They may be married or have girlfriends, they may be married AND have girlfriends, but a regular visit to their local girl or girls is just part of the routine. Once a month, once a week, whatever, it appears to be accepted that these men will be boys. At the same time some deep hypocrisy may run in their cultures about how decadent westerners are, and how morally superior some of these people feel. I'm not bothered by prostitution and the men and women involved, it's just a fact, often a sad fact. Western culture makes it looks so awful and dirty. It looks really sleazy as portrayed on TV, American TV with its fake morality. Perhaps it is sleazy. It looks sleazy to me in Korea at least. I've partaken in that sleaze myself so I'm not one to put others down for the same behavior.
I'm not sure what the hell my point is, other than it seems to be widely accepted as rountine in many countries, but condemned and vilified as a brutal practice in others. I haven't seen many shows about how widespread it is in Korea or Japan, condemning the whole industry. Most of what I've seen or heard regarding prostitution in Korea is a reaction to foreigners, the 1% some of the locals are not comfortable about.
The middle ground may be a better stance. Prostitution is going nowhere. Hate it, feel indifferent, go for it, whatever you like. It's a big thing, and whatever you think of it, it's not going to bend to your ideas.
Anyway, interesting thread even if it just brings out a few ideas that have nothing whatsoever to do with whatever may be happening in Thailand. You can rest assured millions of Thai men will be getting some tonight! |
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