|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Qinella wrote: |
Totally and completely irrelevant. Maybe you and Hollywoodaction are the same person, since you seem to both use the same logic.
Please note the title of this thread. It's not entitled 'Brutality Around the World'. What is it in you two that compels you to produce this knee-jerk reaction when you see criticism of Islam?
Yeesh.. |
Je ne connais pas ce monsieur Hollywood de tout. I have no neither you nor Hollywood. I speak for myself so do not start casting aspersions, eh?
You said it is not about brutality around the world. Fair enough, but you are judging based on the civilization from which you emanate. I don't know if you come from Canada or the U.S. However, are you not judging Muslims based on this practice. There are 22 Arab states which are mostly Muslim, and someone said 2 out of the 22 practice it. I think that is significant.
It means the majority do not just as the majority of Western states do not use the death penalty save for the U.S. You quoted Islam's Bukhari. Then you say it is irrelevant to point that in the TANACH you can find similar words but Jews do not practice this. Most Muslims do not, and that is significant. If we were condemning the practice in Nigeria, Sudan, and Saudi Arabia that would be more relevant. However, you give this impression that this is some general practice with your original post. That is the problem. We don't dispute that this practice is evil, and I don't like its mention in the Islamic holy writings or the Jewish ones. What is exactly your point? Is it that you think Islam is barbaric? The strict application of the Islamic penal code may be seen as barbaric, and I concur with that. Again, most do not practice this practice you posted about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
Yes, Islam is a peaceful religion, and the Koran is a peaceful book 
and Islam treats women with the utmost respect
and women want to have their faces covered
I wonder if a jihad can be declared on a website? or on a poster on a website? 
Question to those in-the-know:
While the middle east has dominated by the west, and Israel, for the last century, while they lost palestine, got invaded, got beat down, got hit by multiple earthquakes, etc. and had hundreds if not thousands die during the hajj, was that Allah's will being done? What, was Allah asleep? Was he on vacation? Was he off with his 89 virgins? Please explain how the Mullah's explain this, anyone. |
My friend, there are misfortunes around the world and there have been wars in Cambodia, India-Pakistan, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
Whenever wars are present, the worst of humankind is present.
If we want to eliminate in ourselves, we should eliminate first in ourselves, and it is not by condemning people. That is easy to do.
I do believe in the words that if we are to look at the speck in our brothers' eyes, we must also look at the plank in our own.
And, brother, you probably do not know this but Allah is also what Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, and Palestinian Christians call God as well.
I believe the ancient Chaldeans used it. Certainly, before there were mosques or Islam, the local Christians used the name just as Spaniards use Dios for God.
I think we should stick to the topic capital punishment the cutting of hands. Do we condemn such a practice? I think we all do whether it happens in Saudi Arabia an ally or a Sudan a country not an ally.
Someone said it happens in the Muslim parts of Nigeria. Nigeria has a lot of problems between Christian and Muslims tribesmen. It is a country that squandered its oil wealth. That is probably one reason they are so backward. I condemn the practice and should all humankind, but I am not looking to condemn people. It is not my thing.
Last edited by Adventurer on Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roch
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| twg wrote: |
| If I were to take a guess at it, I'd assume he was saying that you should be worrying about the fires in your own backyard before worrying about the fires in other's. |
No offence, eh, but you ARE a graduate of N.S.C.A.D. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JLarter
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Qinella wrote: |
| JLarter wrote: |
You shouldn't be stealing then should you!!!!
I guess the crime rate in these places is reduced. Pretty good punishment if you ask me. |
This kind of comment I would expect from an idealistic 8-year-old, not an adult. You should well know that the motivation for theft are not purely greed, and that punishment rarely deters crime. To quote a research article done by sociologist Bradley R. E. Wright of the Univ. of Connecticut:
Society�s efforts to deter crime with punishment may be ineffective because those individuals most prone to commit crime often act impulsively, with little thought for the future, and so they may be unmoved by the threat of later punishment. Deterrence messages they receive, therefore, may fall on deaf ears.
I know, I know.. research shmesearch. |
If I knew that the punishment was to lose my hand, I'd totally think about it before I stole something. People know that it is illegal so they should live up to the consequences of their actions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| twg wrote: |
| If I were to take a guess at it, I'd assume he was saying that you should be worrying about the fires in your own backyard before worrying about the fires in other's. |
I'll just select two of the three similar replies:
| Quote: |
| Typical N.S.C.A.D. stuff from an Anti-U.S.A. type. |
| Quote: |
| No offence, eh, but you ARE a graduate of N.S.C.A.D. |
Wrong on both points.
Second time this week for that sort of thing from you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JLarter wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| JLarter wrote: |
You shouldn't be stealing then should you!!!!
I guess the crime rate in these places is reduced. Pretty good punishment if you ask me. |
This kind of comment I would expect from an idealistic 8-year-old, not an adult. You should well know that the motivation for theft are not purely greed, and that punishment rarely deters crime. To quote a research article done by sociologist Bradley R. E. Wright of the Univ. of Connecticut:
Society�s efforts to deter crime with punishment may be ineffective because those individuals most prone to commit crime often act impulsively, with little thought for the future, and so they may be unmoved by the threat of later punishment. Deterrence messages they receive, therefore, may fall on deaf ears.
I know, I know.. research shmesearch. |
If I knew that the punishment was to lose my hand, I'd totally think about it before I stole something. People know that it is illegal so they should live up to the consequences of their actions. |
Being falsely accused and convicted would be... HORROR. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JLarter
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yea it would! But then I guess the same can be said with the death penalty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JLarter wrote: |
| Yea it would! But then I guess the same can be said with the death penalty. |
Agreed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
Totally and completely irrelevant. Maybe you and Hollywoodaction are the same person, since you seem to both use the same logic.
Please note the title of this thread. It's not entitled 'Brutality Around the World'. What is it in you two that compels you to produce this knee-jerk reaction when you see criticism of Islam?
Yeesh.. |
Je ne connais pas ce monsieur Hollywood de tout. I have no neither you nor Hollywood. I speak for myself so do not start casting aspersions, eh? |
Dude lighten up. I will admit I was in ill temper when I replied to you, but at no point did I actually believe you and HA are the same bloke. Btw, I don't speak 불어..
| Quote: |
| You said it is not about brutality around the world. Fair enough, but you are judging based on the civilization from which you emanate. I don't know if you come from Canada or the U.S. However, are you not judging Muslims based on this practice. There are 22 Arab states which are mostly Muslim, and someone said 2 out of the 22 practice it. I think that is significant. |
Well, yeah I'm judging from my culture (US) but I think that most sane people around the world, upon seeing that video, would be disgusted and disturbed. Did you watch the video?
Also, what does it matter about Arab states? I fail to see how ethnicity has anything to do with it. Like I said, the practice has been recorded in two african nations as well as Indonesia (where it is currently NOW being considered as law).
| Quote: |
| It means the majority do not just as the majority of Western states do not use the death penalty save for the U.S. You quoted Islam's Bukhari. Then you say it is irrelevant to point that in the TANACH you can find similar words but Jews do not practice this. Most Muslims do not, and that is significant. |
Okay, first, I did not quote the Bukhari. I quoted a Web site. Second, it is irrelevant to point out the Torah, or any other penal code for that matter, because, like my elementary teachers said to me, 'We are talking about you, not Johnny!'
It is not significant that most Muslims do not practice this. It is significant that some do. Most? Who cares! Can you tell me of ANY Jews or Christians who are actively following the laws of Leviticus? ANY?
And yet, I can point to four distinct government which practice this barbaric ritual of non-medical hand-chopping.
| Quote: |
| If we were condemning the practice in Nigeria, Sudan, and Saudi Arabia that would be more relevant. However, you give this impression that this is some general practice with your original post. |
The only impression I meant to give was that it's a practice which is done due to justificiation via the Koran. Can you dispute that claim?
As I've said before, I hate Islam. I also hate Christianity and Judaism, if it makes you feel better. I am an apostate, and through years of research, I've concluded that these religions are harmful to humankind. Brutal hand-chopping is one way.
| Quote: |
| That is the problem. We don't dispute that this practice is evil, and I don't like its mention in the Islamic holy writings or the Jewish ones. What is exactly your point? Is it that you think Islam is barbaric? |
Yep, I think Islam is big-time barbaric. I know you are partial to the religion. I suppose you are the type that wants to give them the second chance and make all kinds of excuses. The fact is that no fundamentally Christian nation brutalizes or subjugates women. It is only in Islamic countires that you see it. It's the most evil ideology to grace the human mind. It's a plague, a scurge, a pestilence to be combatted. I have no tolerance for ridiculous bs.
| Quote: |
| The strict application of the Islamic penal code may be seen as barbaric, and I concur with that. Again, most do not practice this practice you posted about. |
True, but as I said before, please point out one Christian-dominated country that still practices stoning for homosexuality, or whatever.
The fact is that Christians and Jews seem comfortable ignoring certain parts of their religious doctrine. Makes them whimsical idiots, sure, but at least the world scene is soothed. It is only in Islamic states that you see outrageous grievances to humanity take place. Can you deny that?
Yeah, I posted this video to point out the barbarism of Islam. I hate the religion and wish it would disappear. of course that is a fantasy, but at least you all should be aware of this practice. It's 2007 now, and people are getting their hands hacked off with big knives in a barnyard by a group of brutes because they stole a bike. WTF!!!!!
WTF. Indeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JLarter wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| JLarter wrote: |
You shouldn't be stealing then should you!!!!
I guess the crime rate in these places is reduced. Pretty good punishment if you ask me. |
This kind of comment I would expect from an idealistic 8-year-old, not an adult. You should well know that the motivation for theft are not purely greed, and that punishment rarely deters crime. To quote a research article done by sociologist Bradley R. E. Wright of the Univ. of Connecticut:
Society�s efforts to deter crime with punishment may be ineffective because those individuals most prone to commit crime often act impulsively, with little thought for the future, and so they may be unmoved by the threat of later punishment. Deterrence messages they receive, therefore, may fall on deaf ears.
I know, I know.. research shmesearch. |
If I knew that the punishment was to lose my hand, I'd totally think about it before I stole something. People know that it is illegal so they should live up to the consequences of their actions. |
No, dufus, you just ignored the research I presented to you.
Hmm, let's see.. JLarter vs. Bradley R.E. Wright, Sociologist.. hmm, who am I going to side with..
Wow, what a choice. I guess the verdict is: You are an idiot! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JLarter
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Qinella, you can find research to prove anything these days. If I had the time and could be bothered I could get hold of the research that talks about how severe punishments do reduce crime levels. In fact, when they introduced zero tolerence policing into some UK cities, government statistics say crime dropped.
Are you saying you wouldn't be more likely to steal if you knew your actions would go unpunished? It common sense for christs sake. Sociology isn't even a proper subject! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If I knew that the punishment was to lose my hand, I'd totally think about it before I stole something. |
I do not believe this is why people do/don't do something illegal. It may hold true for small children, but not for people who have reached the age of rationality. We restrain our harmful behaviors because (the vast majority of us) have internalized a moral code.
Societies have used harsh punishments for thousands of years and have not had much success with it. People still steal and commit murder. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JLarter wrote: |
In fact, when they introduced zero tolerence policing into some UK cities, government statistics say crime dropped.
|
But was that because of any real deterrent, or might it have been the fact that those most likely to do very naughty things were also quite likely to do quite naughty things, and being put away for the quite naughty things meant they weren't at large to do the very naughty things, or even more quite naughty things? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
Ancient Judaism practiced capital punishment. This is a form of capital punishment, is it not? I consider it backward. The difference is Jews have clearly moved away from things like stoning centuries and centuries ago.
The Muslim population has not moved away from it in a more direct way though no Arab countries practice stoning. Most Arab countries do not practice cutting the hands. There is only one Arabic state that does that, and it is Kuwait. So only one Arabic country out of 22 chooses to follow that. So in a sense, they don't believe they have to follow that ordinance. So let us not blow this out of proportion. However, it is a barbaric practice and people need to clearly break away from that. |
No, I don't think Kuwait practices execution by decapitation. At least when I was there in the 70's and 80's execution was by hnaging. Neither do they lop hands for theft.
Perhaps you are thinking of Saudi Arabia? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I would add that whilst the means of execution is an issue, the real issue is capital punishment itself. Most civilised countries abhor it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
