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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: Berlitz, Pagoda, others... breaking the law? |
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How is it that these adults chains are able to farm out some of their workers?
I have ran into a number of people working for these chains but teaching in different offices. I know that Berlitz may have a contract with "said company", but that doesn't make it legal for them to send their E2s there.
How can they not have been busted for teaching off of their ARC location?
(this isn't to rat on any teachers - most that work for Berlizt seem to be quite new - I'm just wondering how these guys have not been tagged by Immi) |
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hugo_danner
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Berlitz, Pagoda, others... breaking the law? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
How is it that these adults chains are able to farm out some of their workers?
I have ran into a number of people working for these chains but teaching in different offices. I know that Berlitz may have a contract with "said company", but that doesn't make it legal for them to send their E2s there.
How can they not have been busted for teaching off of their ARC location?
(this isn't to rat on any teachers - most that work for Berlizt seem to be quite new - I'm just wondering how these guys have not been tagged by Immi) |
A quite time honored Korean tradition. It's known as "greasing the palm." |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Berlitz, Pagoda, others... breaking the law? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I have ran into a number of people working for these chains but teaching in different offices. I know that Berlitz may have a contract with "said company", but that doesn't make it legal for them to send their E2s there. |
A friend in Japan works for NOVA or something and they have her working in an engineering company teaching english to engineers. I don't see a problem working at a big chain who contracts you out to a company like Samsung. As long as you're being paid by the school, where does it matter where the four walls are? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Because it is illegal. Unless they have it on your ARC, you are working illgally. No matter if it is a hogwon or a business.
A lot of newbies might be in something they don't know about. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Because it is illegal. Unless they have it on your ARC, you are working illgally. No matter if it is a hogwon or a business.
A lot of newbies might be in something they don't know about. |
Illegal how? I work for x employer. I'm paid by x employer to teach. They have me teach at y building. I dare think the addy on your ARC card doesn't mean that's the exact location where you have to be teaching. What if your school moves buildings? Do they have to get you a new ARC card? |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Illegal how? I work for x employer. I'm paid by x employer to teach. They have me teach at y building. |
It's illegal because Immigration says it's illegal. I know they've busted teachers for teaching at a branch of the SAME company, at a branch other than the one they were contracted to teach.
When it's a simple matter to put a second location / second branch on the back of your ARC, there is no reason for any school or teacher to break this particular Immigration law. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Berlitz, Pagoda, others... breaking the law? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| How is it that these adults chains are able to farm out some of their workers? |
AFAIK, Pagoda doesn't break this particular law. The laws they break deal mostly with inadequate paid vacation and too many hours in a row without a break.
Other schools? Dunno. I know Wonderland and GnB have farmed teachers out to other locations illegally, though. |
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I-am-me
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Hermit Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| I was "farmed out" to work at an elementary after-school program. Fortunately they did take my ARC to immigration and had my second place of employment added. I would get any second place you work at added to the back of the ARC card. I have heard too many stories of immigration busting teachers. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| I only have my korean home address on my ARC. Nothing on the back. Does that mean I can work anywhere or nowhere? |
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I-am-me
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Hermit Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| You can work only at the place immigration has you at on the computer. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| I only have my korean home address on my ARC. Nothing on the back. Does that mean I can work anywhere or nowhere? |
No, they have your working address on file. If you teach at a second location they will add that location to the back of your card.
EVERY ADDRESS YOU WORK AT MUST BE ON FILE OR ADDED TO THE BACK OF YOUR CARD.
Provincial offices of education do not need to do this. The reason is quite obvious. |
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jmbran11
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Ok, so a certain school pays its employees a fair wage. Then, the school contracts with a business, let's say Samsung, to teach some classes to office employees. So, some of the school's employees are transported on site to Samsung to teach two classes a week and everyone is happy. This situation is purely hypothetical. But, my point is, what is the big deal? Samsung would assume that the teachers would legal (and probably are) and the teachers would be paid by the same employer at the same wage as agreed upon.
Everyone keeps saying this is illegal because immigration hasn't been notified, but I don't understand why it's illegal. The school is simply providing off-site classes as well as on site. So, what's the big deal? And, yes, I know many operations that function well like this (myself not included - so don't get any ideas). Wasn't there some talk that these companies can't hire E-2 teachers so they'd have to hire a company to provide classes.
Again, where's the harm? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Because it is illegal. Unless they have it on your ARC, you are working illgally. No matter if it is a hogwon or a business.
A lot of newbies might be in something they don't know about. |
Illegal how? I work for x employer. I'm paid by x employer to teach. They have me teach at y building. I dare think the addy on your ARC card doesn't mean that's the exact location where you have to be teaching. What if your school moves buildings? Do they have to get you a new ARC card? |
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised you didn't know this man. If you work for Pagoda Jongno, you can't "fill in" for classes in Gangnam. if you do, you'll get busted if caught.
Likewise, those Adult Hogwons cannot be sending teachers to different companies.. it is illegal.
And the peron going to bear the brunt of it will be some newbie teacher. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| jmbran11 wrote: |
Ok, so a certain school pays its employees a fair wage. Then, the school contracts with a business, let's say Samsung, to teach some classes to office employees. So, some of the school's employees are transported on site to Samsung to teach two classes a week and everyone is happy. This situation is purely hypothetical. But, my point is, what is the big deal? Samsung would assume that the teachers would legal (and probably are) and the teachers would be paid by the same employer at the same wage as agreed upon.
Everyone keeps saying this is illegal because immigration hasn't been notified, but I don't understand why it's illegal. The school is simply providing off-site classes as well as on site. So, what's the big deal? And, yes, I know many operations that function well like this (myself not included - so don't get any ideas). Wasn't there some talk that these companies can't hire E-2 teachers so they'd have to hire a company to provide classes.
Again, where's the harm? |
The (potential) harm is, that it undercuts those that are trying to work in the field legally. I work in this industry and PAGODA pays its teachers about 15,000-20,000 an hour while charging (places like) Samsung/LG 100,000 per hour. All the while, the teacher is getting paid peanuts and WORKING ILLEGALLY.
Their teachers are mainly here on E2s. That means they are able to work solely for their sponsor AT their sponsors location. If not, what would stop hogwons from sending you out to every student's house?
It's illegal for many reasons, and some of the schools are breaking the law - I just wonder how they are getting away with it.
Young FRANKenstein, I'm pretty sure PAGODA does break this one too. They have a division called PAGODA OUTSOURCING and they are al over Work n' Play. They basically hunt for teachers to send out to jobs like this... or occasionally send out some of their salaried guys. |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| jmbran11 wrote: |
Ok, so a certain school pays its employees a fair wage. Then, the school contracts with a business, let's say Samsung, to teach some classes to office employees. So, some of the school's employees are transported on site to Samsung to teach two classes a week and everyone is happy. This situation is purely hypothetical. But, my point is, what is the big deal? Samsung would assume that the teachers would legal (and probably are) and the teachers would be paid by the same employer at the same wage as agreed upon.
Everyone keeps saying this is illegal because immigration hasn't been notified, but I don't understand why it's illegal. The school is simply providing off-site classes as well as on site. So, what's the big deal? And, yes, I know many operations that function well like this (myself not included - so don't get any ideas). Wasn't there some talk that these companies can't hire E-2 teachers so they'd have to hire a company to provide classes.
Again, where's the harm? |
It's illegal because IMMIGRATION SAYS SO!!! Ours is not to reason why!! 
Of course there IS a reason (at least this is what I suspect): When a teacher works for 1 company and is "hired out" to teach in another company/site/location/school/whatever, there is generally no "paper trail" which means that taxes are not being paid on that income...thus immigration became involved to prevent this. While the teacher gets fined/deported in this case, something tells me that the hagwon owner gets a FAR bigger fine PLUS the loss of a teacher. |
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