Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jdog2050]

Just say yes-ism, or, You have an abc degree...xyz should be easy.

I've run into this attitude several times in the past few days, while searching for part times to fill the void of the winter break. Honestly, I've never really worked in the Seoul Hagwon system, and haven't been as disgusted with the Korean education system as I've become in the past few days. Before, I just thought it was bad because of the endless, mind-numbing bureaucracy, now, however, I see this last minute "let's just get you in here" attitude so much worse.

The story is that I'm at a hagwon (it's actually a decent one), where I had an opportunity for a little extra work. The guy calls me and asks me, in a rush, will I be available to teach in the afternoons, I say, pretty much yes, but I'd like to see the material first. He hesitates on the phone and just says ok, ok. I come in the next day, and ask about the position and he tells me it's been filled because I didn't sound very confident about taking it. I'd told him that I'd more than likely take it, I just wanted to see the material and curriculum. It's astounding to me that they'd rather take a person who will dick around for 3 days because they simply said "yes", than a person mostly sure but just wants to make sure they will do a good job.

Sometimes, and I know this is sad, but I almost feel like us "waegookin" give more of a shit about their kids than they do. I know koreans pay a *lot* of lip-service to education, but when it comes down, they fail to deliver in a lot of ways.

Posting as a rant, but it doesn't have to be flamebait. If you want to prove me wrong or even right, let's keep the "asshattery" on a low level.

[billybrobby]

[jdog2050]

[captain kirk]

I can't tell, from what you wrote, if the extra work is at the same hagwon you work at. Makes a big difference to the story.

If the extra work is at the same hagwon you work at I have some experience of the employer being severely miffed when my answer was 'no', or 'let me think about it'.

One instance was in Taiwan. The program head wanted me to teach an extra, middle school class for a couple of hours twice a week or something. I said 'no' and he never forgot that. I asked the supervisor who was relaying the 'offer' if I could refuse and he said sure, it wasn't mandatory, my option. But it wasn't. When the big boss asks you IF you will do something it was more like 'do it!'.

Same for another situation. The school owner/President (hagwon) asked through the manager if I'd teach on Saturdays for three hours. The overtime rate was crap and, anyway, my hobby is getting out on the motorbike on two day weekend trips on the weekend in nice weather.

So, feeling some obligation, somewhat wanting to please, I attempted to bargain asking if I could teach every other weekend. Or if they could just get somebody else, period. Or whether they would raise the overtime rate.

The response, via the Manager, was that the school owner says that if you decide to take the Sat., three hour job it's every weekend and for the duration of the contract and at the stipulated (low) overtime rate. And, apparently, the owner was very pissed I wouldn't oblige and do this work. Absolutely inflexible and bizarre. But in both cases proposed as an optional assignment.

[jdog2050]

[Bukowski]

I know this all too well, as I have had several experiences with it. In general, I think what leads to such a misunderstanding are culture and individual expectations.

A couple of former supervisors would always "ask" me to do something (there were plenty of other foreigners that they could ask in my district, but they always "asked" me.

For the longest time I didn't really mind, as I liked the extra money, but one time I decided to say "No, I'd rather not." Well, I got the funniest look from my supervisor, and then he asked me again. I repeated what I had said and added that I would ask one of the other foreigners to do it. He didn't like that I idea, but he said he would do it himself.

Long story short, a couple of days later, he is hounding me again, so I asked him what the other foreigners said...you guessed it, they also decline. Fine.

Why was it always my problem? I think it was because in the beginning they knew I would always say yes and they ended up always expecting it.

I admire people who can be forcefully tacticful about saying no. This one teacher I knew put a stop to that nonsense on the first go. They asked him, he said no, they asked him again, and he replied "I already answered your question, did you not understand what I said? Perhaps I need to work somewhere else where my boss understands the meaning of yes and no."

He delivered it with a wink and a nod (I could never pull that off), and the supervisor didn't get angry, but he never asked that teacher to do anything extra again. I wish I had that ability, but I don't, so I end up getting stuck.

Anyway, to answer you question. When people that out rank you in the food chain "ask" you to do something, you need to recognize that they aren't really asking!! They are merely trying to be polite, rather than rudely telling you something.

From the maladjusted side of things, people tend to believe that they should/do always have a choice. Unfortunately, in most work environments that is not the case, but we con ourselves into thinking that we do...but at what price?

AC

[jdog2050]

[kingplaya4]

Saying no isn't really an option with most bosses in the West either, maybe they'd hound you less, but it surely won't be forgotten, unless you happen to be lucky and have a very understanding boss. The people that get ahead, or heck even survive recession cuts, are the people that either have irreplacable skills, very political, or hard workers.

[kp2575]

[blaseblasphemener]

I had a boss who picked me up from the bus and one of the first things out of his boss was "Are you a Christian?"

I told him no, but that Jesus was great, with a thumbs up sign. Turned out the boss was also a minister, and wanted the 3 foreign teachers to come in on Sundays for his sermon and a little teaching to the congregation, of course it wasn't mentioned on the phone.

The other two teachers were new, I wasn't, and they were all stressed about it on the Friday, not knowing what to say to him. He comes into our office and says "So, I will see you on Sunday?"

"NO" I say, smiling.

"Yes, Church on Sunday?" he's looking at other two teachers now.

"Uh, no, we're busy" they say.

"I would like you to come in and read to the students" he says.

"Sorry, we don't work on the weekends. But have a great time okay?" I say.

After that, they never had a hard time saying no. To those who worry about saying no, YOU ARE A TARGET. Learn to say no, and the bosses will find someone else who likes to be a victim.

Nearly everytime I've said yes to a boss when I felt like I should have said no, I've lived to regret it.

[Young FRANKenstein]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

It's pretty amazing, isn't it, what enquiries will and will not throw them. When I first interviewed for my current job they all seemed very surprised that I wanted to know about the English curriculum and see the textbooks. Why on earth would a prospective teacher be interested such things?

It's also interesting how they seem to have the view that any white person can do any teaching job. No, we can't. Some people can teach any age in any setting; others are different. Some great ECE teachers would fall to pieces teaching middle school and vice versa.

As for saying 'no', that's a bit of a different issue when working public school. I can count on one hand the number of times I've said no - no, I'm not working Saturdays (I've since offered to do so since it's only two Saturdays a month now); - no, I'm not teaching a couple hours a week at the kindergrarten the principal owns; - no, I'm not taking a new Korean teacher in as a roommate. Apart from that I always say yes unless scheduling just doesn't allow it. It really does put me in their good books.