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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: Have US actions helped strengthen Al Qaeda? |
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Have the actions of the US and its allies given rise to an even more pernicious Al Qaeda?
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Crucially, though, al-Qaeda has evolved from an "idea" with a small group of followers into a tangible physical entity, especially in Iraq, where the resistance is on course to be fully taken over by al-Qaeda. The execution of Saddam Hussein will help al-Qaeda become the unifying force of all Iraqi warring segments, very much like the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Using Afghanistan and Iraq as springboards, al-Qaeda aims to unite all ideological allies under one strategic platform where their thoughts become al-Qaeda's. This, it is believed, will give them the courage to face down the "demon" US war machine that has kept them cowed in the past. The example is the new-found harmony between Pashtun tribes and the Taliban in Afghanistan and al-Qaeda and Sunni Arab tribes in Iraq.
Al-Qaeda has targeted what it sees as the repugnant association of ruling establishments and Islamists in Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. These will be the new and broader fronts of wars fought under a structured al-Qaeda command. |
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IA04Df02.html
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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The whole idea of the war on terror is to get the terrorist to engage.
By that I mean that there are terrorist who would target civilians.
If soldiers are deployed to meet the terrorist it is likely that the terrorist will engage on their own turf.
What would the results be:
Terrorist are now bombing within their own communities and not in the US.
Terror are in retreat in Afghanistan and Somalia.
Libya is no longer supporting terrorists(?).
Yes Iraq is a more dangerous place, but there have been no more Embassy bombings in Africa, no more World Trade Center attacks.
So pernicious, yes, but localized (to the mid-east) no longer a true threat to the west. The Al-Qaeda or al-Qaida has been uprooted and dismantled in the Philippines. They are loosing ground elsewhere.
Iraq will be drawn out to draw the al-Qaida and other terrorists in.
In the meantime aid is given to countries infected with the al-Qaida fringe, Somalia, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, other African and Asia Countries.
Someone else will add to this perniciousness discussion I am sure.
cbc |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I think that al-Qaeda's leaders have gotten what they have wanted all along, a legitimization of their threat to Western Democracy and Western influence over Islamic lands and peoples. They do not have to beat the West, they just have to engage and hold their own.
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| al-Qaeda has evolved from an "idea" with a small group of followers into a tangible physical entity |
This is very important, particularly the evolution of the network...they have become more advanced, more elusive, cells are becoming vertically integrated, and most importantly (for al-Qeada), leadership has become very independent.... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Bignate: have you accounted for the fact that this pre-Iraqi-War-hardly-tangible-less-than-a-valid-thread-"idea" hijacked several airplanes and flew them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9/11?
How about the U.S.S. Cole?
Not a legitimate threat before the Iraqi War made them so?
Cells are becoming vertically integrated? as if they were not so integrated before? Do you even understand the nature of cellular organization in the first place?
ROFL |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Title of Thread: Have US actions Strengthened Al-Qeada? |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Cells are becoming vertically integrated? as if they were not so integrated before? Do you even understand the nature of cellular organization in the first place? |
Al-Qeada cells up untill 9-11 still relied heavily upon funding and operational orders from above, that is not so in the post 9-11 world...they are much more independent....they rely upon al-Qeada recruits and contacts, but to limit the tracking of easily traceable funds and info...they are practically autonomous and annonymous, unlike their pre 9-11 entities....do you even understand the difference between the two contexts???? 
Perhaps someone needs to update their own understanding...
No kidding..... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| bignate wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Cells are becoming vertically integrated? as if they were not so integrated before? Do you even understand the nature of cellular organization in the first place? |
Al-Qeada cells up untill 9-11 still relied heavily upon funding and operational orders from above, that is not so in the post 9-11 world...they are much more independent...they rely upon al-Qeada recruits and contacts, but to limit the tracking of easily traceable funds and info...they are practically autonomous and annonymous, unlike their pre 9-11 entities...do you even understand the difference between the two contexts????
Perhaps someone needs to update their own understanding... |
Bignate: the words and concepts you are looking for are "decentralization," "lateral communication," and "horizontal integration" -- and I would be very skeptical of the latter, if you indeed claimed such integration or possibly unity between the various groups, organizations, or factions.
And, however that may be, the reason that this decentralization and lateral communicating is so, post-9/11 and post-War on Terror, is that we have destroyed al Qaeda's command-and-control infrastructure.
What remains are multiple "copy-cat" organizations that have little or nothing to do with bin Laden or the original al Qaeda. What remains of the original al Qaeda will live the rest of their lives hiding in caves, probably bordering Afghanistan and Pakistan.
A Chilean once sneered a pretty distasteful antiAmerican joke in a social event when I lived there: he asked "who will win in chess? W. Bush or bin Laden?" I said I did not know. He said bin Laden, of course, because he started the game by taking out W. Bush's dos torres (which is how Spanish-speakers refer to rooks). I responded that that was not necessarily so. bin Laden may have taken out our torres, but we openly dominate the entire chessboard and bin Laden, forced to hide in caves and elsewhere until his life ends, cannot even come out and play anymore, let alone finish or win the game...
There is much talk about who is winning, or who has already won or lost this war. I fail to see any winners on this battlefield, which, in spite of our not winning, we still dominate.
In any case, if you are asking whether the War on Terror has contributed to enflaming the very threat it seeks to destroy, at the grass-roots level, seemingly confirming little Arab boys' worldviews on the big, bad, United States, I would concede that, as long as ground conditions (economic difficulties and ignorance within ignorance -- not to mention Islamic fundamentalism's dominance in many quarters) remain as they are, such a consequence will be inevitable.
C'est la vie. As long as we are killing them over there and they are not hijacking airplanes and using them as missiles over here, I will live with the problem's apparently self-perpetuating nature.
| bignate wrote: |
| No kidding... |
Yeah, no kidding. |
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