Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Big_Bird]

Terry Jones (of Monty Python fame) asks: Is the US getting value for money in Iraq?

[Wangja]

One of the post-invasion justifications I have read, even on this baord, is that the cost of pre-invasion "containment" was too high.

It must be based on logic similar to WMD.

[ddeubel]

I would suggest that we should look at the "real" value of war. Meaning, let's follow the money and see where it leads.

It is disengenious to compare giving money to each Iraqi and what the U.S. spends on the war. They are two totally different animals. The U.S. expenditure on the war, does not go into Iraqi pockets (nor for that matter does it at the very least go towards keeping them safe, but that is another topic). The U.S. expenditure on this war, the money trail, leads everywhere else BUT Iraq.

This is another myth. That war is an investment in the country being liberated. NAY. Ever been to a military base, even Yongsan? The money turns in circles among the Americans and rolls back home. The effect on the local economy is very little and detrimental in the way it creates dependency. In the case of Iraq, it is almost completely true.

I suggest that it would be better for the U.S. to just give Iraqis money. But will never happen. War is an economic investment in SELF and not ultruistic. And there was never anything altruistic about this war. War is good for the economy, is an old truism. And when you have those with deep interests in corporations, running the state, you can be sure as hell there will be a war and not just any handing out of cheques to freedom loving Iraqis.

DD

[thepeel]

[ddeubel]

http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basEss1.html

Thanks for posting that, makes complete sense.

We do have choices of where to spend our money, always choices, is the correct conclusion. Not a matter of X takes from Y.

Completely agrees with my thesis and I'll let you think about how.....

DD

[thepeel]

What is your thesis? That war is bad? Like, duh.

[khyber]

[bucheon bum]

the gov't has found halliburton has overcharged us 1.5 billion dollars. how much has it paid back? zero. What has been done about it? nothing.

100 dollars to do one laundry load.
63 of 67 water treatment facilities for US facilities in Iraq were faulty and proven to have contaiminated water.

That is just two things.

[thepeel]

DD said war is good for the economy. A foolish statement.

What I posted is a very famous take down on that idea. It is called the broken window fallacy.

If I break a window, and it requires 10$ to repair it, there is an increase in "investment" and employment as a result of my action. In the eyes of the silly, 10$ has been created, or added to GDP.

In reality, I've lost the value of the window. That is what is unseen. So, it is more than government not being able to supply "social programs" etc etc.

In war, the government taxes the people to build things that break stuff. Some say this is good for the economy. It isn't. You loose the value of the stuff that is broken (either here, or there) and the investment/spending that would have otherwise happened should the war have not take place.

War is bad for the economy. All war. T'was my only point.

[ddeubel]

[khyber]

[twg]

[mindmetoo]

A tank requires labor to make. When a tank is built, it sits in a field and does no work for the economy. A tractor requires labor to build. Unlike a tank, it can plow the field and keeps adding value to the economy. You over build tanks. You've got a lot of tanks sitting in the field. You over build tractors, that's bad, but now tractors are cheaper and a farmer can make a go of his business.

War is not as good for the economy as the free market building products people need to make their jobs more efficient. Worse, if the government is bidding up steel and copper to make aircraft carriers, it's not fully great for the economy for your tractor and commercial airline makers to have to now buy even more expensive steel and copper.

End of story.

Compare the 1991 recession to the 2001 recession. The 1991 recession resulted when the California defense industry collapsed. The government quit buying things to fight the USSR. The 2001 recession resulted when the dot.com boom went bust. The 2001 recession wasn't as painful because the 2001 recession suddenly left a lot of stuff that could be had cheaper and employed by other people. Yes, people over built office buildings. People over built fiber optic. People bought a lot of office furniture. These things all went on sale at fire sale prices. New start ups bought the furniture and moved into the offices which now had cheaper rent. In short business plans that were not financially feasible in 2000 suddenly became feasible.

[ddeubel]

I will concede that domestically, war is only good for the economy IF the military goods produced are used, sold, exported, create new demand, kill, maim, terrify, obliterate, blow up, roll along etc.........

What that takes is leadership that knows how to promote instability in the world, leadership that creates markets for these goods through a "war", a leadership that creates a climate whereby there is a demand. So far , so good with the present American leadership. A blessing for the military corporate elite, Lockheed, Boeing et al. Imagine how Phillip Morris would be cheering if the president were a chain smoker!

DD

[Hollywoodaction]