Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Milwaukiedave]

Steve,

Nice burn on MS.

My opinion is that we should try to get things as stable as possible and remove troops. We should continue to provide help in terms of advice, especially since we helped to get them in this mess.

[Kimchi Cowboy]

The US should stay there until they've established some semblence of stability. Then they should get out of the Middle East entirely. And everywhere else, for that matter. Let the locals fight their own wars, and put some of those billions of war dollars into fixing their own problems at home.

[madcap]

Yeah, those years under Sadam were pretty bad, no question. But things are so much better now! I mean, running water, electricity, hospitals, the ability to walk across town without worrying about being blown up, I'd give these things up for an impotent puppet "democracy" any day. Come on! At least now we have direct control of what they do with the weapons and training that we give them instead of just giving them to them and trusting them to be good (and looking the other way when they aren't) because, lest we forget, the average Muslim subsists on nothing more than christian blood and the souls of infidels.

Oh yeah, bang up job in Afghanistan. A burgeoning heroin industry, rising death tolls, and a resurgent Taliban. The country is doing about as well as GW's popularity ratings.

[stevemcgarrett]

madcap:

We cannot succeed anywhere in establishing democracy if the people in these troubled nations aren't willing to sacrifice enough to gain it. That's the real lesson of Vietnam and Iraq. And it holds true in Afghanistan. The Afghan government is supportive but only to a point. They aren't willing to fully disrupt the poppy trade if it will mean economic displacement for farmers. However, they have been shown alternative agricultural methods which extend beyond mere subsistence farming, only those aren't as lucrative. That's their immoral choice. And then you have the unwillingness of the Pakistani government to curb infiltration of ousted Taliban elements from their tribal lands, as President Karzai has himself accused Musharaf.

If the current Iraqi government doesn't show more resolve, bolster Iraqi units in recaptured districts of Baghdad, and reign in al-Sadr and other Shi'a insurgents and terrorists, then we should indeed get out as Kimchi Cowboy points out so well.

I used to be an interventionist--like most Americans including the current Democratic leadership--but I'm inclined to be more isolationist. Let's use those billions right here at home and to heck with the rest of the world that uses us like some street hooker. Everyone whines and opines about the American presence in the world but come running to us (note Somalia and Kenya for the most recent examples) the minute they're in trouble (Kuwait too).

[animalbirdfish]

Keep doing what they're doing and pretty soon their won't be any people left to cause problems in the country, what with the mass exodus of Iraqis to other - less hellish - lands.

[EFLtrainer]

[ddeubel]

[ariellowen]

Hunker down for a long siege. The main change needs to be in expenditure. Expensive tanks, aircraft, helicopters and so on need to be sent home. Iraq could be occupied for a decade on what it has cost for each year of the war up to this point.

If this is true: "$200 million each and every day," each week America spends an amount about equal to the entire Eritrean and Ethiopian Annual Military Budgets.

Iraqi and other allied soldiers will have to bear the major burden of casualties, as even two percent of the American highway fatalities lost in Iraq each year seems to be unacceptable to the populace.

[stevemcgarrett]

EFLTrainingWheels:

[bucheon bum]

[stevemcgarrett]

bum:

And just how exactly was Iraqi society supposed to blossom and flourish under the weight of Saddam's regime had we not invaded? Please delineate at will.

How would you know Syria is only a small factor? Is the Saudi government provide safe haven to terrorists? I think not.

You're splitting hairs on the Islamist culture point: Arabs are Muslims and Arab society encourages revenge. Even a current leader of the Iraqi cabinet who opposed the death penalty against Saddam has said as much publicly.

I would hardly compare Malaysian with Indonesian society. The former is inviting to tourists; the latter is a basketcase with a well-entrenched Islamofascist network.

Now I suppose you'll want to quibble about my use of the term "Islamofascist." Don't bother, bruddah.

Islam is in a bad way these days no matter how you try to paint a pretty picture of it.

[spinario]

[spinario]

[Cerebroden]

As for what the OP actually asked for.

Initially we need more troops (which they are getting)
Then:
Cordone off Baghdad into specific zones that make it more difficult for militias to rome free through. Break it down by neighborhoods and business districts. Once it is impossible to transit weapons and explosives
then expand the green zone on a level by level basis. Have Iraqi police patrol the green zone while Iraqi and coalition military patrol and seal off each new area.

The trick is to not let the insurgents know which areas will be cordoned off and when. Otherwise "sleepers" will be put in to place. Now technically you will in no way be able to keep this from happening, but if you go slow and do it properly. By the time Al Sadr calls on you to drive that car bomb through the embassy, hopefully your kids will be going to school and you'll have running water and electric and maybe even internet and you'll think twice about doing it.

p.s. this process IMO would take about 3 MORE years to do properly.

[spinario]