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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Did you miss the rest of my post? |
Well, let's see....hmmmm....I remember reading THIS:
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| Fundamentalism: a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. |
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Creationism: the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
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Now, did I miss something? Fundamentalists believe the Bible to be 100% historically accurate. Creationists believe God is responsible for everything, Bible, Universe, et. al.
What's the catch, chief? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Why focus only on Christian fundamentalism and Christian creationism? There are many varieties of fundamentalists and creationists with various world views ... |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| Did you miss the rest of my post? |
Well, let's see....hmmmm....I remember reading THIS:
| Quote: |
| Fundamentalism: a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. |
| Quote: |
Creationism: the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
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Now, did I miss something? Fundamentalists believe the Bible to be 100% historically accurate. Creationists believe God is responsible for everything, Bible, Universe, et. al.
What's the catch, chief? |
Does this help? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| Did you miss the rest of my post? |
Well, let's see....hmmmm....I remember reading THIS:
| Quote: |
| Fundamentalism: a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. |
| Quote: |
Creationism: the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
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Now, did I miss something? Fundamentalists believe the Bible to be 100% historically accurate. Creationists believe God is responsible for everything, Bible, Universe, et. al.
What's the catch, chief? |
Evolution Vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugene C. Scott (Paperback - 12 Oct 2005)
The Counter-Creationism Handbook by Mark Isaak (Paperback - 1 Dec 2006)
The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design by Ronald L. Numbers (Paperback - 15 Dec 2006)
Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism by Matt Young and Taner Edis (Paperback - 15 Mar 2006)
Science of Evolution and the Myth of Creationism: Knowing What's Real and Why It Matters by Ardea Skybreak (Paperback - 1 Sep 2006)
Evolution, Creationism, and Other Modern Myths: A Critical Inquiry by Vine, Jr. JR. Deloria (Paperback - April 2004)
Scientific Creationism by Henry Madison Morris (Paperback - Dec 1974)
God's Own Scientists: Creationists in a Secular World by Christopher P Toumey (Paperback - 15 Jun 2006)
Denying Evolution: Creationism, Scientism and the Nature of Science by Massimo Pigliucci (Hardcover - 31 Aug 2002)
The Creationist Debate: The Encounter Between the Bible and the Historical Mind by Arthur McCalla (Hardcover - 15 Jun 2006)
Evolution and the Myth of Creationism: Basic Guide to the Facts in the Evolution Debate by Tim M. Berra (Paperback - 30 Jun 1990)
Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design by Barbara Forrest and Paul R. Gross (Hardcover - 12 Feb 2004)
Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. Scott (Hardcover - 30 Jun 2004)
You going to contact the authors of all these books and ask them to change their terminology because you're confused, mack? |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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You're just reinforcing everything I've postulated, namely, that when we use the word "creationist" we are talking about people who believe that "God" created the universe and everything in it. I'm not sure where your confusion comes from. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
You're just reinforcing everything I've postulated, namely, that when we use the word "creationist" we are talking about people who believe that "God" created the universe and everything in it. I'm not sure where your confusion comes from. |
You are suggesting that everybody who believes that God created everything should be labelled 'Creationist', regardless of whether or not they accept the theory of evolution.
I am trying to get you to understand that the standard definition of a 'Creationist' excludes people who believe in the theory of evolution. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| Like most reasonable people, he believes that God created evolution, and that evolution in turn created humans. |
Is that not creationism, but on a macro scale? I'm confused... |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| Generally speaking 'Creationism' refers to the belief that genesis is a literally true account of the origins of the universe and life |
Ah, I see. So it comes down to semantics. I just assumed that any who believe "God" created anything could be labeled a creationist. It seems as if another word is needed to label those people who believe that events in the holy books actually happened as written. Oh, wait....aren't those people called Fundamentalists?
From here on out, let's call anyone who believes that God is running the show a "creationist" and anyone who interprets their holy books literally a "fundamentalist". That's much clearer. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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And you're missing my point. MY DEFINITIONS ARE BETTER. Why? Because most scientists who believe that "God" created everything also believe in evolution; therefore, your definition of "creationist" doesn't hold water in this thread, which is specifically about two scientists, one who believes that "God" created the universe but didn't get involved in the whole "planet building" thing, and one who believes that religion is a bunch of hokum. That's the thick and thin of the article, if you read it.
In any case, my definitions are better, more precise. Again, a "fundamentalist" does not believe in evolution and, in fact, believes the whole shebang started about 6000 years ago, give or take a few thousand years. A "creationist", on the other hand, holds that the possibility of evolution cannot be ignored, yet God is ultimately behind the whole deal.
Frankly, my definitions ROCK. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
| And you're missing my point. MY DEFINITIONS ARE BETTER. |
No, they're not. You're the only person I've ever heard of who has gotten confused by the term 'creationism'. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| This is fun. Okay, I'm changing the definition of atheist to "someone who has disproved without a doubt the existence of any and all gods, both in the past, present and future." Agnostic will stay the same. Theist will now be defined as "anyone who has ever wondered about the existence of God." Okay, gang ah jee, you're a theist. So is mack the knife and everybody else. My definitions rock. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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"The term "strict creationism" is sometimes used to avoid confusion with the more general concept of creation held by those whose faith accommodates theistic evolution."
Ergo, my definitions are more appropriate. Sooner or later you wasters will be forced to deal with the fact that the world more or less revolves around my middle finger. |
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