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| Do You Want to See It? |
| Yes |
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34% |
[ 9 ] |
| Undecided |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| No |
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61% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Making executions public and enforcing attendance for a certain number of witnesses (a bit like making a duty similar to jury service) might increase public oppositition to what is state sanctioned murder and an ineffective deterrent. |
The funniest thing is that the US supposedly tried to stop the execution. There's probably nobody that wanted him more dead, besides al-Sadr, than George Bush. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't kow that, and it is odd but in a sense it is no odder than Britain's Foreign Secretary (and other Europeans) having to express contentment when the death penalty has not existed there for decades. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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If the footage is available in a way which shows dignity for the prisoner's body, fine. Do I want to see it myself? No.
Should people watch it? If people are interested in the issue, I guess. If teens just think it's fun to see someone die, no, their parents ought to be involved.
Ken:> |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| ...in a way which shows dignity for the prisoner's body... |
I did not oppose Saddam's execution. Far from it. But I would object to the way the Iraqis carried it out -- cultural differences or not. CNN reported that some executioners and witnesses argued with and indeed taunted Saddam just before he hanged. Others danced around his dead body afterward. This makes me uncomfortable on several levels.
I understand emotions run high with respect to this man's history. However, I do not believe that executions should be about revenge but rather justice. And executioners and witnesses should not take any pleasure from a prisoner's death -- executing him should be enough; inflicting unnecessary indignities seems in rather poor taste.
Also, I found it politically inadvisable. Why give Saddam loyalists yet something else? Execute him without comment. Let him say his last words. No point in responding to him. Open the gallows. Nothing to celebrate. "Today we executed Saddam. Now we have closed this chapter in our history and will move on to the next."
Finally, to go a little off-topic, for some reason South Park's mocking Saddam now seems wholly inappropriate to me. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
I did not oppose Saddam's execution. Far from it. But I would object to the way the Iraqis carried it out -- cultural differences or not. CNN reported that some executioners and witnesses argued with and indeed taunted Saddam just before he hanged. Others danced around his dead body afterward. This makes me uncomfortable on several levels.
I understand emotions run high with respect to this man's history. However, I do not believe that executions should be about revenge but rather justice. And executioners and witnesses should not take any pleasure from a prisoner's death -- executing him should be enough; inflicting unnecessary indignities seems in rather poor taste.
Also, I found it politically inadvisable. Why give Saddam loyalists yet something else? Execute him without comment. Let him say his last words. No point in responding to him. Open the gallows. Nothing to celebrate. "Today we executed Saddam. Now we have closed this chapter in our history and will move on to the next."
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Gopher,
Three years ago, as US and 'coalition of the willing' troops occupied Baghdad, many important archaeological sites and museums were left unguarded, despite months of prior warnings by US museum experts that priceless archaeological relics and museum collections stood to be looted and destroyed. While there didn't seem to be enough troops available to guard the museums, there was no shortage of troops ready to lassoo and topple the statues of Hussein that dotted the city. The one thought that stuck in my mind was, "why was this necessary? If the invasion of Iraq was about liberating Iraqis from a despotic tyrant, why was it ok to overlook looting of Iraq's priceless cultural heritage in a rush to pull down as many Hussein statues as quickly as possible? Hussein was gone, Iraq was no longer his. What difference does it make whether his moldy monuments to himself come down today or tomorrow?"
What struck me at that time is that these were the actions of people who were not clear in their own minds as to why they were carrying out their actions. That the invasion was about power and conquest, about a first-world superpower subduing a third-world nonentity, not about liberation or freedom.
I think your objections are justified. If Hussein had been legally sentenced to death and the sentence to be carried out forthwith, why was it necessary to taunt the sentenced individual? If his executioners had absolute power of life and death over him, what difference does it make in the end what Hussein said or did in his final moments? Why was it necessary to taunt him? In the end all his executioners did was rob themselves of any dignity or justice.
It just adds a sad, sordid, ugly footnote to a sad, sordid, ugly mess that is the whole Iraqi invasion in the first place. It sent the message that his execution was about dominance, power, conquest and revenge, not about justice. It likewise sends the message that the people carrying out this action were unclear in their heads as to why exactly they were doing it.
But perhaps, if we look at the individual at the very top, who initiated this whole Iraq mess, it is simply a consistent theme that runs through the whole sad story. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
I did not oppose Saddam's execution. Far from it. But I would object to the way the Iraqis carried it out -- cultural differences or not. CNN reported that some executioners and witnesses argued with and indeed taunted Saddam just before he hanged. Others danced around his dead body afterward. This makes me uncomfortable on several levels.
I understand emotions run high with respect to this man's history. However, I do not believe that executions should be about revenge but rather justice. And executioners and witnesses should not take any pleasure from a prisoner's death -- executing him should be enough; inflicting unnecessary indignities seems in rather poor taste.
Also, I found it politically inadvisable. Why give Saddam loyalists yet something else? Execute him without comment. Let him say his last words. No point in responding to him. Open the gallows. Nothing to celebrate. "Today we executed Saddam. Now we have closed this chapter in our history and will move on to the next."
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Gopher,
Three years ago, as US and 'coalition of the willing' troops occupied Baghdad, many important archaeological sites and museums were left unguarded, despite months of prior warnings by US museum experts that priceless archaeological relics and museum collections stood to be looted and destroyed. While there didn't seem to be enough troops available to guard the museums, there was no shortage of troops ready to lassoo and topple the statues of Hussein that dotted the city. The one thought that stuck in my mind was, "why was this necessary? If the invasion of Iraq was about liberating Iraqis from a despotic tyrant, why was it ok to overlook looting of Iraq's priceless cultural heritage in a rush to pull down as many Hussein statues as quickly as possible? Hussein was gone, Iraq was no longer his. What difference does it make whether his moldy monuments to himself come down today or tomorrow?"
What struck me at that time is that these were the actions of people who were not clear in their own minds as to why they were carrying out their actions. That the invasion was about power and conquest, about a first-world superpower subduing a third-world nonentity, not about liberation or freedom.
I think your objections are justified. If Hussein had been legally sentenced to death and the sentence to be carried out forthwith, why was it necessary to taunt the sentenced individual? If his executioners had absolute power of life and death over him, what difference does it make in the end what Hussein said or did in his final moments? Why was it necessary to taunt him? In the end all his executioners did was rob themselves of any dignity or justice.
It just adds a sad, sordid, ugly footnote to a sad, sordid, ugly mess that is the whole Iraqi invasion in the first place. It sent the message that his execution was about dominance, power, conquest and revenge, not about justice. It likewise sends the message that the people carrying out this action were unclear in their heads as to why exactly they were doing it.
But perhaps, if we look at the individual at the very top, who initiated this whole Iraq mess, it is simply a consistent theme that runs through the whole sad story. |
1) Cultural differences, probably, but also the fact that some of al-Sadr's thugs were there.
2) Actually, I read that most of the artifacts were hidden, so it appears it wasn't as severe as it was believed. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, no I don't want to see it. I don't have a strong feeling either for or against the death penalty.
In this case, I feel it would have been better to lock Saddam up for the rest of his life rather then making him a martyer. I realize that there are several potential problems with that though, one of which is if somehow he escaped or a group of people busted him out of prison. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Milwaukiedave: I do not believe that executing or killing someone automatically promotes them to "martyr" status each and every time -- and especially not in this case. Way too cliche.
Saddam was not Jesus. Neither was he Che Guevara, for that matter. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Milwaukiedave: I do not believe that executing or killing someone automatically promotes them to "martyr" status each and every time -- and especially not in this case. Way too cliche.
Saddam was not Jesus. Neither was he Che Guevara, for that matter. |
Martyr...not sure...but hero maybe. I know at least one arab who was very impressed with the way Saddam went to his death with dignity, and was able to reply with some wit to taunts before he was hung. This same guy used to think Saddam was a real [email protected] now has a new respect for him.
Also, I don't think it was very wise to hang him on Eid al-Adha - a holy time for muslims. What were they thinking of? There will be much anger over that. The same arab I know was really shocked about the choice of this time. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Also, I don't think it was very wise to hang him on Eid al-Adha - a holy time for muslims. What were they thinking of? There will be much anger over that. The same arab I know was really shocked about the choice of this time. |
Maybe that "same arab" ought to decide whether they are muslim or not. The eid didn't start until sundown Saturday and we all know how important the timing of things is for muslims ie. prayer call, Ramadan fasting, etc. So, unless I'm mistaken, Saddam was executed some 12 or more hours before the eid started.
Website of muslim holidays |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CNN Breaking News wrote: |
| Saddam Hussein's half-brother and the former head of Iraq's Revolutionary Court have been executed, CNN confirms. |
CNN Report |
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