Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Zoot]

Here's my quesiton:

Who is at fault: the person with a degree and no real desire to teach English coming here for the job, money and experience or the employers knowingly employing unqualified people?

I've been seeing some occasional posts about people taking jobs and then not getting along with a school and always blaming the school for things not working out. While it is often the fault of the school for treating their teachers like the guy who empties the garbage at their school. Schools often do turn out to be crooked and take advantage of people who are in a position not to argue (or who are lead to believe that they are).

However, I also see a number of posts blaming the teachers for being crybabies who shouldn't be here to start with if they don't actually want to do the job or who complain when they get the slightest bit of criticism. Often it is simply that the 'teacher' doesn't know what he or she is doing. Understandable since many of us have little experience dealing with students or actually getting the material across to the students.

Honestly, I'm not too happy in this line of work but I feel stuck here due to finances. I was here for a year with a school that wasn't so bad but I needed a change so now I'm at a different school. Let me tell you, I feel like I've traded in one set of problems for a different and slightly worse set of problems.

So, that's it. Who should take the blame? The school for hiring unqualified personnel or the people for taking jobs they aren't qualified for?

[English_Ocean]

I vote: The unqualified employees.

[Woland]

The only people we are responsible for and can change are ourselves.

[sadsac]

Individual choice, you can gain experience teaching and do some extra study and that may make it seem a little more worthwhile. You make the choice, stay or go. There are some aspects of living in Korea that are not too unpleasant. I hope it goes well for you.

[twg]

[Homer]

[ChuckECheese]

People should not come here not having enough money to return home just in case.

And have some balls and say "NO" if you feel it's not right. If they try to force you to say "YES", then just leave.

[Homer]

Agree with the safe money issue...it is a smart thing to do.

Also, do stand up for yourself but do pick your battles and learn the rules of the game before doing so.

[Zoot]

I think I'm pretty good at what I do - no one really complains too much about me but I wasn't all that qualified when I got here and all I really have to qualify me now is my one year experience (now 1.5) and my degree.

As for having enough money to get the hell outta Dodge... I do technically have it but I've got financial goals that would be difficult to meet at home within certain time constraints (after pension, severance and all that good stuff). Also, I've got stuff here besides money that's keeping me around (nam-ja chingu to be exact)but it seems that teaching is the only way I'll be able to keep myself in this country without going broke.

You make a good point about studying to make myself more adept at carrying out my duties. I've tried to do this, using things I picked up at my first job and other things that I've picked up from other teachers but I've found myself met with indifference from my bosses most of the time and saddled with extra work as a result.

I'm just saying that it's a two-way street. People can't expect to be hand-fed at their jobs but the employers can't expect teachers to do what they want every minute of the day if they're not told what that is.

(sorry, this is getting long)
Case in point: at my first school, we had notice before our classes were observed (about once a month) and recieved written AND verbal feedback regarding the class. They told us the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE stuff and gave constructive feedback. This second school just comes in randomly, maybe a few times a week, watches and either gives no feedback or just verbal criticisms. This is not what I call constructive. This makes it very difficult for teachers to improve and feel comfortable in the environment.

This is where I have difficulty. If they want the white faces in there so bad, they gotta back it up with a little substance. If we don't have a lot of training, give us training.

I also wonder if the situation could REALLY be that different in a different school or in a different country. Maybe I would enjoy teaching English somewhere else. When I took these jobs I thought I'd be teaching more than just English, if you catch my meaning. I didn't think I'd be a verbal punching bag for these kids and I thought my intellect and creativity would be valued. Maybe I've just been picking the wrong schools.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

When I briefly taught hogwan I'd like to think that I was a good teacher and a bad employee. The two often go hand in hand at hogwans.

[Paji eh Wong]

[plokiju]

The real problem is that hagwons are not really schools, they're businesses. They could care less what the foreigner is doing in the classes since I've always believed that the boss expects the Korean teachers to actually do the teaching. The foreigner is just there to attract potential students to the school. Even if the school is terrible and students quit, so long as enough new students come to offset the ones they lose, the school is satisfied.

I think most hagwons operate solely for the money and think of it as an easy source of revenue. If you think about it the owner really does nothing. He just provides a classroom, some textbooks, and teachers. Then, he goes and tries to promote the school to get new students. The easiest thing really is to tell everyone they have foreign teachers. In my opinion, the school really doesn't want to put in the effort to provide teacher training. As long as the teacher is doing a mediocre job, the school is happy. Plus, what's the point of doing extensive training when the teacher will likely only be there for a year at the most or until the next paycheque at worst. Periodic evaluations and all that, I think, are just a way for the boss to remind the teacher who is boss and to motivate them to become better teachers by telling them they are doing terrible jobs while providing no constructive criticism. I remember hearing as advice, "Today, I think you should do perfect teaching." No hints as to how I was to achieve perfection in class.

I'm not sure how accurate my view of the hagwon system is but when it operates as a business the school's goal is money not education. If they really stress education then they are smarter and willing to put more effort in to ensure a successful business in the long-run but it all comes down to money in the end. Teachers aren't worth training properly because employers only think in the short-term. Then again, I've been at 2 bad schools so am quite cynical about the whole thing.

[Hater Depot]

Hagwons would have higher teacher retention rates if they acted like they cared about teacher retention rates. I've seen some that do and some that don't -- you won't win any cookies for guessing which ones have high retention rates.

[Zoot]

[Atavistic]

Well I have an M. Ed. and three years of experience teaching in an 87-99.97% poverty rate school (depending on the year) in South Atlanta where I cycled through at least 45 kids a year though my classroom itself was never more than 22 students. I have had things thrown at me, one of my students had a stepfather who hanged himself in his apartment, I once spent more than $100 to feed a kid's family because his mother broke her foot and lost her job (and his apartment was 1 table, 1 chair, 1 mattress on the floor and a TV), I helped a student tell her mom she was pregnant (I taught fifth grade), I've been called a f-ing c--- and I have had a parent threaten to kill me.

Then I decided to come to South Korea and I ignored a friend's advice to avoid hogwans.

My first hogwan was new and my boss was supposed to be the guy who interviewed me. Instead it was his older brother's wife, who lied about having any background in education and who claimed that I "had too much experience." In other words, I refused to come in a half hour earlier and stay an hour later than my set hours, and when I explained why I was pacing the book the way I was, it made them unhappy. (They said I was going too fast and the book needed to last at least 6 months. I did the math for them, showing it would last 8 months at my pace. That ticked them off.) I wasn't supposed to have a coteacher and I refused to deal with her abusive bull. I got fired--though I was trying to get fired at the end to avoid having to pay back my plane ticket--and the non-teacher fresh-out-of-college Canadian who was willing to do all of the extra crap got accolades and I was told that "she's the better teacher." Of course, that's because she's spineless. Now, despite all of her extra work, she didn't get one day off when she asked for it.

Bad boss.

My second hogwan, on the other hand, has great kids, a boss who leaves me alone, and fantastic parents. The problem? The boss feels like she doesn't have to pay anyone.

Bad boss.

Nobody will tell me that I'm not a good teacher. I have a dozen students and parents who still email me from last year, thanking me for teaching them. I can teach. I can entertain. I have the degree, the certificate, the evaluations, test scores, students, and parents to prove it.

So I blame the bosses.