Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Skarp]

I would really like the original poster to come forward with a little background.

If he/she is a recruiter then I would like to apply through him/her. Same thing if he she is a school director.

But it sounds very much like a generic rant from a disgruntled teacher or maybe a Korean in some way interested in the field.

A lot of the points make sense and are what you might read in any 'how to get a job' book or leaflet.

But any job market is just that. A market. I gather that the market in Korea for EFL teachers is more balanced. There might even be an overall shortage of applicants.

Many of the ads from recruiters paint a picture of easy work, big money, no hassle......so they will get a lot of casual applicants. (These are not necessarily bad teachers/candidates by the way.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to demand a higher salary. There is a lot of profit in the hakwan business and it's only natural for applicants to push to get a fairer share of it. If they get deleted out of hand thay can always reapply a few days later with a lower bid - chances are the school/recruiter won't remember them anyway.

'Look at things from my point' of view is a two way street.

If a school/university is really serious about attracting professionals then they could offer:-

Really good terms and conditions...(3M a month plus good housing ought to do it)
Paid leave and financing for professional development (schools should support teachers to become fully qualified (DELTA/DIP TESOL) and more.
Reasonable working hours (so you can teach every lesson well)
Genuine career development (opportunities for teachers to move into management/senior teacher roles)
Good management that makes decisions based on educational merit and not profit alone.

I could go on, but there really is no point.

Interestingly, the vaunted British Council in Seoul was advertising for teachers in the spring. Even they fell short on the salary (2.1M - no housing) and working hours, although they offered 7 weeks holiday plus a few extra benefits.

But TEFL is not very professional anywhere in the world that I know of. It probably never will be.

Still, there are good teachers in Korea, and more will go there. There must be professional schools out there too.

It takes effort from teachers to find such schools, and a lot more effort from the schools to attract and retain good teachers.

Skarp

[Homer]

The OP makes some interesting points about the way certain people approach the job hunting in Korea.

Many uninformed (at least I hope they are uninformed!) people think they are entitled to a much higher renumeration then their resume actually warrants. They read posts on here and other boards and expect a high wage for little or no work.
They view the job in Korea as some sort of paid vacation and see themselves as "high priced free agents" that can pretty much demand whatever salary they want.
This is unfortunate and it is of course partly the result of the lax recruiting norms in many Korean schools.
However, simple rules do apply here like anywhere else. To get a higher paying and better job you need qualifications. those are usually made up of a combination of experience and degrees. A fresh out of the oven undergrad with zero experience should not expect to land these jobs. It is possible of course but highly unlikely much like you don't start at the top of the ladder in the job market back home.

Negociations require some sort of leverage. If you have experience and degrees you can usually negociate a better deal with your employer. this is what happened at my hagwon.
The better schools out there value their experienced staff and are usually willing to pay to keep them.
but, you also have to be reasonable in your demands. Look at the school and evaluate the potential for paying you they have. Back home, you don't even negociate at all. You just start at the bottom of the pay scale and move your way up in regulated raises over your career. You get more employment security, on paper anyway, but you could hardly walk into your school board office and demand a higher salary....

[chilsung]

Well I am surprised to see so many responses. I do apologize for the rant and for the fact that I did and probably will still have some mistakes in my writing. As I read the responses I noticed most others had errors also. I personally don't care for the scrutiny of that. If this was a professional paper or something that I was submitting for publication of course I would focus my attention on a more precise editing job. This is an open forum and I don't really feel so inclined to be exact. For the record pick up any book classic or contemporary and read it. You will find mistakes in them also.
Now as for my background I am a white native english speaker. I am a teacher and have been for a few years. I was an academic director in the States for a private school. I have a background in management and teaching.
I would also like to address some other issues. I am not saying that someone does not or should not recieve recognition or a bonus payment for their experience. I am saying that the experience has to be directly related. Experience teaching highschool does not prepare you for teaching kindergarten. Also if your duties are the same as the other teachers with little or no experience then you are all at the same level. When you are paid at a higher rate you are expected to give more of yourself and have certain abilities that are directly related to the position.
I would always prefer to hire experience over education, but a business needs a balance of both. When a person teaches in the US their pay depends on how long they are with that particular state. If you move from one state to another you will have a lower pay scale. You are not paid the same as the teachers of the new school that have the same years experience. You usually get paid more than starting salary but not always. Depends on your experience and the school.
Resume writing and professional interview skills are learned. My point was that most people are not being taught well. There are so many styles and opinions of what is appropriate. I just want those of you who really have something to offer be able to make the cut.
I left out one more thing. No one really cares about your hobbies and interests. It is an irrelevant portion of the resume. This is a profession not a personality contest. If you have something that relates directly then put it in written for in your cover letter.
Finaly, one should never demand any sort of money before you have the job offer. I personally advise people going into interviews never to discuss salary. If a job post states that the salary is negotiable then you negotiate not demand.
Thanks again for all of your response to this post. I did not think that anyone really cared about their resume. Good luck to all.

[Seth Gecko]

Dear chronicpride,

How could you do that to Spidey ?

[camel96]

[William Beckerson]

[Skarp]

Has chilsung got direct management experience of sorting through applications in Korea? If he has then any input from him ( I'm guessing it's a he) is VERY valuable.

If not then it's just more opinion and it would have helped us all if it had been introduced as such.

If someone applying to a school or recruiter thinks they are worth 2.6M a month or whatever, then they are until the feedback from the market dictates otherwise.

It's a market, we are a commodity. We are worth whatever they can be made to pay.


Chilsung's attitude seems typical of education management in the UK. (Although his experience is in the US). Years of telling teachers they aren't worth paying a living wage, and who do they think they are to demand one has left state schools with such a chronic shortage of staff that we have foreigners from non-English speaking countries teaching here! ( And doing a good job, I'm sure)


In a way - we have to protect the hakwan business from it's own mismanagement. If they push wages down too far, then suddenly no-one will want to work in their schools.

It's not JUST about money. But nobody is in TEFL just for the love of it.

All just my opinion. I have yet to set foot in Korea.


Skarp

[jajdude]

"Most schools receive an average of a hundred resumes and only seriously look at five." I find this a little misleading. I think out of a hundred applicants maybe five might actually take the job. First of all they might be outside the country and never show up anyway. Then they are also probably applying to dozens of other jobs. I see some of the ads on the job board on this site with maybe 500 "views." I don't know how many people apply, of course, but sometimes you can tell the employer is desperate to hire the first person who will actually show up because it isn't so easy to actually get the applicant in the door. Truer if it's in the boonies.

[OiGirl]

[William Beckerson]

And Oigirl has lain the smackdown harder than I ever could.

I love you.

[OiGirl]

[Derrek]

[Homer]

Good idea on principle Derrek...but you have to be worth this pay and not feel you can demand it.
Those are tqo very different things.

[qwunk89]

[/quote]Experience teaching highschool does not prepare you for teaching kindergarten.


Maybe. . . but, it sure helps. Classroom management, controling students, dealing with supervisors, ect.

To say that teaching high\school doesn't prepare you for teaching kindergarten would be like saying skateboarding doesn't help you when learning to snowboard, or tennis doesn't help you when learning how to play ping-pong. Or something to that effect.

I'm sorry, although your original post was very useful, this and a few other narrow, or poorly stated opinions, are complete rubbish. All your opinions come form what you do, not from what others do. Everyone thinks differently - you proclaim like your the resume god or his poser.

[Derrek]