Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sid]

[billbile]

Depending what mood I'm in when confronted with the "accent thing", I tell them a story straight from the fan death school of truth and science.

"Did you know that scientists have been conducting scientific experiments, and they have discovered that the New Zealand accent is the most correct one. Oooh yes, it's true. Harvard University Journal of Accent Research Volume 47 no.786. page 309. You'll find it there."

[gang ah jee]

[thegadfly]

Actually, I think the salary fluctuates more with the exchange rate than due to other factors...the base salaries offered now at the current exchange are still about the same as the base salaries offered in '96 when I first came over...when recovering from the IMF crisis, schools were offering salaries that worked out to be higher in USD than those in '96, but now the base has dropped back to those levels...around $1750 US, incidentally...remember when salaries were 2.2-2.4 average? Prolly when the exchange rate was 1250 won = $1usd. Now the exchange is around 1175 = $1usd, and average offered salaries are 2.0-2.2....

Now I am not saying salaries are tied to the USD...there are probably similar comparisons to the pound, Canadian dollar, etc...but I think in this market, most teachers ARE converting their currency to send back home. I mean, I was in Korea two years ago, and the base offered was around 2.4 most places...now I see base offerings of 2.0...did living in Korea become cheaper? Of course not...but 2.0 is still attractive to some people because the amount of money you can convert and send home is about the same...on 2 mill you can still send $1000 US home a month...but 2 years ago it would take about 2.4 mill to be able to send $1000 US home...

[Saxiif]

Its possible to get 2.3 jobs, even without any negotiating, you just have to be lucky (and apparently very white, young and American and completely lacking in any even vaguely applicable experience)

[BTM]

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

[billbile]

Indians and Europeans, two places each with populations exceeding the United States, usually speak English based on "British English" patterns; it is not only New Zealanders and Australians. And of course there are the English themselves.

This is why Koreans (or any English speakers) would be best served by exposing themselves to both 'British' and 'American' English, as they are somewhat vaguely and erroneously termed, in order to get a strong fix on the language and be able to communicate widely with the world's English users.

I would say that in English there is no neutral or standard English, since this is how inhabitants of the English speaking world usually view it. In English, 'standard' relates to English in a city or a province at most, not in a nation let alone the world.

Accent etc. has rarely been important to English speakers, and no-one can defend the creation or appointment of a 'standard' accent in english. It tends to imply snobbery which is usually antithetical to western cultured people.

This is different to Korea where they are taught with and do have a standard Korean. Koreans that we teach must be informed that English is different in this sense. They must not, and we have a responsibility to teach them not to, regard any accent as superior or inferior. It is not after all a way for a Korean to win friends, by telling people their accent is 'strange' or' bad' or 'wrong'. At best their remarks about somebody's accent should be complimentary in nature, like 'interesting' or 'cool' or 'nice' or 'unique'. Because this is what English speakers do naturally when they are polite people, and Koreans do aim to be as much like English speakers as possible, after all.

At the very least, UK English does not deserve to be dismissed as non-standard on any account. This is because it is the birthplace of the language, and it is part of the language's roots. Koreans will accept this when you ask them how much sense it would make to them if, in the future:

1. Koreans became more numerical and powerful within, say, the United States (or it could be in any particular place other than Korea).
2. There were entire states there which are controlled by Koreans, and Korean language dominates there.
3. The number of Koreans in the US is much bigger than the number of koreans in Korea.

and:

1. People go to the US to learn Korean, and ignore Korea entirely.
2. Koreans from Korea go into a Korean language classrooms in any country, say the Phillipines or Australia, and discover a map of the US on the wall, with no mention of Korea at all. And in the Korean language, class members discuss only the United States and the culture of Korean speakers in the United States only (which is somewhat different to that in Korea), as if the language and culture was born there.
3. People think Koreans can not speak Korean very well.

When you ask them this, they readily see how absurd it would be. And then you point out that this is exactly what Koreans do wth English.

I reckon we have a duty to teach this to Koreans: that when a Korean's English gets to a certain point of communicative ability, that is, when it reaches the point where s/he can be understood by any English speaker chosen at random, s/he is better off listening widely to English accents (by listening to CNN world news, for example) rather than trying to ape exactly any one accent. That is because of the simple expedient that the Korean will thus be able to communicate with the maximum number of English speakers with this approach, which is after all the main point and goal of learning English. we're short changing them, otherwise.

[Coffeecup]

[daisy]

Only someone with the original and intellectual name of Arthur Fonzerelli could spout so much crap (hope that word is ok, cause all other appropriate expletives probably aren't). Get your head out of your ****, superpower? Gee, wish I came from somewhere where people openly bag anyone not from there or who is a little different. Where I come from, we encourage individualism, respect differences and practice tolerance. With your attitude, I sure am glad you aren't anywhere near my children. Go home, it is people like you, with your obvious superciliousness and innane sense of superiority, who give all expatriates a bad name.

[The Lemon]

[billbile]

Two questions for discussion:

1. What English speaker thinks that anyone (except perhaps themselves) has a 'neutral' accent?

2. If a Korean has a conversation with an English person, and can't understand her, what does this mean?
a) The English person is not very good at English
b) The Korean is not very good at English

I feel that only either a complete zombie or a slightly weird Korean would choose (a). But correct me if I am wrong.

[billbile]

"I would expose my child 75% to American and Canadian (practically the same in many places) as it is the Gold Standard"

Fair enough, it's your kid, but the Gold Standard? Fool's gold, more like!

Anyway. These spoilt-rich kids in Korea who can only communicate with North Americans via their hard-won "North American accent", and squint and screw their face up every time they have the considerable misfortune of having to do business with a non-American, are not going to get very far in any kind of international organisation, which their parents no doubt aspire for them to be part of. Fact. Time and money is a-wasting in Korea.

[rapier]

i met a Canadian backpacker on transit here at the hostel the other day- I really had to concentrate to decipher his sentences. Makes me realise how much slower, clearer and more precisely I speak now after a year or so in the hogwon.
And its kinda hard to accept that most koreans would eagerly pay more for a raw, slang - slinging American/canadian fresh of the plane than someone like me with a very neutral accent.

[Gollum]