Korean Job Discussion Forums

[huffdaddy]

Here's an interesting article that I just found. Essentially my argument, but better worded.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060901facomment85501/john-mueller/is-there-still-a-terrorist-threat.html

[thepeel]

Aren't you the only one who is talking about terrorism? Are you discussing terrorism with anybody, or just yourself?

Terrorism isn't the issue, but a symptom of the larger issue.

[contrarian]

on the other hand, talks of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, how interesting.

A little history might help. First John D. Lee (the only one who paid) was the polygamous husband of some of the best friends of my great grandmother. I know that history well, both written and family tradition.

He quotes from an unkown source as follows:

"At the time, the Mormons were on a war-footing, and leaders like Brigham Young had instilled a culture of vengeance, fear and anger in their people."

The problem started with the President of the US. Buchanan sent an army of 5000 men to subdue the Mormons under Albert Sydney Johnson, later of Confederate fame, to do so. The Mormons defended themselves by non lethal guerrilla tactics and kept the army out of the valley until winter set in. The made a deal and allowed the army to come in. We fed the army and made them dependent on us. This was in 1857, the same year as the Massacre. The victims from the Fancher Train we mainly Missourians and Arkansans who the Mormons refused to sell supplies to. Nast comments were made and the battle was on. Most of those who did the massacre we Piaute Indians.

The Mormons had previously been driven from New York to Ohio, from Ohio to Missouri, from Missouri to Illinois and from Illinois right out of the US. When they arrived in Utah in 1847 it was part of Mexico. The too said: Never again. We were not pacifists.

We were there first and didn't have to supplicate to anyone but the Indians. They joined us becaue we treated them better than the US did. In the years since then those coming to Utah, SW Idaho, West Wyoming, parts or Arizona and Nevada have accomodated to us, not the other way around.

We eventually succumbed to the US in 1890 by giving up polygamy. This in itself is interesting Utah and Wyoming were the first areas in the US to grant women the vote. The US government disenfrachised the male Mormons over the polygamy issue and when they found that the women were voting "the Mormon party" disenfranchised them too.

Like many "converts" the Mormons are now the most Republican of all states.

huffdaddy:

Your positions are superficial at best and purile in substance.

[mithridates]

Videos don't work.

[bucheon bum]

[contrarian]

bucheon:

Does that make you a revisionist? I admiited the accusation and gave the background. Does that make me one?

[huffdaddy]

[huffdaddy]

[On the other hand]

[Woland]

[contrarian]

Ah yes! The social context of Islamic terror.

Lets see.

1. Late 1800's Jews start coming from eastern Europe and other places to the "promised land" They join a few thousand who have always been there.

2. In 1917 the Brits are about broke, they get loans and the Jews get the Balfour declaration. The Arabs and particularly Haj Amin al Huseeini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, are outraged.

3. AntI Jewish terror breaks out the are riots etc. under the direction of the Haj Amin. These continue until about 1936 or 7. The Brits throw Haj Amins out and he goes to Nazi Germany and becomes an advisor to Eichman and Himmler.

4. WWII starts and the Jews supply a Brigade to fight with the Brits. Haj Amin raises several SS divisions for the Nazis in Bosnia.

5. Germany loses the war an pro Zionist Churchill loses an election. Thing heat up in the Holy land. The Brit Labour government changes course and backs the Arabs.

6. The Soviets and the US start to back the Jews. 1948/49 there's a war. The Arabs lose even though they outnumber and outgun the Jews. The Brits had left military stockpiles for the Arabs but the Jews got there first and took most of them. This is still called the catastrophe in Islam. The "warrior" Arabs had had their butts well kicked by the bookish Jews.

7. This affront to Arab pride lead to several more wars. 1956, 1967, 1973, the first invasion of Lebanon and the second one.

8. This failure of courage and ability caused the Arabs to renew the use of terror tactics. They continue to try for an all or nothing redeeming victory. They wind up with less each time. They are the authors of the own misfortune.

There's the background. Now is Israel and the wes going to bend over and grab our heels because they fell bad!

I don't think so.

[postfundie]

Huffdaddy,

The next time a plane is bombed by terrorists you should make sure to tell the families, that the plane could easily have been lost in a storm or that people die due to mechanical error.....The reason that there have not been successful attacks to date is because the poohhlice and authorities have thwarted them.....You use illegitimate fear as an excuse to not have a true concern about terrorism.....remember when the WTC was attacked in 93...guess what they tried again and this time they were more successful...

You lived in a Muslim country good for you! Did you notice how free it was for women and homosexuals and how just anybody could practice their religion freely or how women were free to marry non muslims but muslim men had to marry only muslims....??? How can you be so blind to Islamic theology...OH I remember because you can just point to some Christian problem as an excuse...that must be convenient...or give the tired excuse that it's only the extremists....Just how many Zen bombings have you seen lately??? How many Buddists are into bombing or forced marriages... Can you see any big difference here between the Buddha and Muhammed????? Now please go and find one or two waaay out there cases of buddhist violence then act as if it's the same thing...DD can probably help you..

[contrarian]

People like Huffdaddy, mind me to and the oh so nice liberal folks are frightened to death that their comfortable little worlds and faulty preconceptions will fall if they acknowledge that some people and some beliefs, secular or religious are just plain wrong. Others though they may be right for us are the "enemy" to our way of life.

There is a Clash of Civilizations going on. At the present it is pretty much between Islam and the rest of the world.

A culture that is stuck in the middle ages and hasn't had a new idea since they started using the decimal number system is getting is figurative knickers in a twist and is making demands of the world. The crazies amoung them are downright dangerous. I don't care to understand them, or to feel their pain. I want to stop them.

We talk about winning their hearts and minds, and get side tracked into doing nothing except whine. If you want their hearts and minds, grab them firmly by the *beep*, squeeze hard and lead on. I can assure you their hearts and minds will follow.

[ddeubel]

[huffdaddy]