Korean Job Discussion Forums

[wannago]

Uhhh, just out of curiosity, does one get a Purple Heart for being in a Humvee accident at Ft. Benning?

[EFLtrainer]

The issue of patriotism raised by a right wing wacko... absurd, is it not? Someone married and devoted to ideology as opposed to their nation, it's constitution and people...

[twg]

[stevemcgarrett]

alffy:

[twg]

[alffy]

I must say, Steve, that was an excellent post (no sarcasm intended). If you had launched this thread with such a nuanced position I believe the discussion would have taken a different turn.

To address some of your issues...I am not willing to defend Kerry or his positions based solely on his service. I will defend him against allegations of lack of patriotism based on that service, but not his actions or politics. I would do the same regardless of the individual involved or his/her politics. People such as Bob Dole, Donald Rumsfeld, John McCain, or Chuck Hagel may not necessarily represent my political or ideological views (although some do in some issues), but I would be just as affronted if some political hack attacked any of them on their service or question their patriotism (while never a Bush support, I was horribly outraged regarding his supporters, and through his complicity, Bush himself, regarding the treatment of McCain in the 2000 South Carolina primary-and not just because I was a McCain supporter). And yes, people, I did say Rumsfeld as well.

As to Kerry's comments in his chosen venue. I believe he was unwise in this selection, not due to the location or comments, but of leaving himself open to such charges as have been leveled. If Kerry truly believes what he said, and he felt that presenting those comments in such an international venue was serving to emphasize his ideas, and maybe even have an intended effect on that international audience, then no, I do not have a problem with him doing so.

I do not believe US soil is sacred and necessitates the practice, be it tradition or not, of hosting contrarian views spoken by Americans. I believe US citizenship and rights may be considered so. I believe that Americans have a duty to express their beliefs and concerns openly, without fear, and without consideration to concern of apparent impropriety. Now of course this does not extend to speech that is inherently dangerous (physically), as the courts have determined. But I have not seen one shred of evidense that such remarks as Kerry and Kennedy have made are directly harmful, assertions of "giving support to the enemy" notwithstanding.

And if an American, even one of such standing as a Senator, choses to attack America and/or Americans in his remarks, so be it. That's what I love about America. I think we need more such challenging remarks from just such people. Has Bush or any other war supporter asked us to sacrifice anything for this "War on Terror?" Even the Patriot Act and domestic spying? Has this been asked of us legitimately? Have we been challenged to sacrifice some of our liberties for greater security? If this challenge was offered, maybe we would have an open, legitimate discussion in this country regarding these issues.

And I do understand your frustration with Kerry's elitism and arrogance, he has plenty of both. As do many on both sides in our political system. Can you honestly say Bush is less arrogant? Or less elite? (Andover, Yale, Harvard, Skull & Bones, distinguished pedigree- he's the son of a President and grandson of a Senator, for God's sake!).

[stevemcgarrett]

twg: