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My Problem with the Iraqi war
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that America cares about people too much. What happened to the days when people could successfully drop atomic bombs on foreign cities and call it a victory? Bunch of f**kin bleeding hearts
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: My Problem with the Iraqi war Reply with quote

otis wrote:
Are these morons really worth a single drop of American blood?


Of course not.

I was screaming this to the heavens in 1991.

It's no different today.

The Bush family wants war and that's that.
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread might contain the single largest string of inane, historically uninformed responses I have ever read on this forum (from the Left, Right, and sideways).

I really don't know where to begin and really wonder why I should bother. So I won't. It's tiresome.
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PimpofKorea



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Dealing in high quality imported English

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say just turn the whole middle east into the world's biggest golf course...totally level it...
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otis



Joined: 02 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
This thread might contain the single largest string of inane, historically uninformed responses I have ever read on this forum (from the Left, Right, and sideways).

I really don't know where to begin and really wonder why I should bother. So I won't. It's tiresome.


The troops completed the mission.

Saddam is dangling from the end of a rope.

Now it's up to the Iraqi people.

Not another US service member should give their life to support the current Iraqi president--a man who is in bed with a punk like Sadr.

The Iraqi people have spoken, and this is what they said:

"We prefer living in the Middle Ages. Going to the bathroom in the backyard with the family Camel is our kind of scene. We are knuckle-dragging dirt-eaters! Always have been; always will be. Now leave us alone. We have religious enemies to kill."

What? An American has to die over that?
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Cerebroden



Joined: 27 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

otis wrote:
"We prefer living in the Middle Ages. Going to the bathroom in the backyard with the family Camel is our kind of scene. We are knuckle-dragging dirt-eaters! Always have been; always will be.

and let me guess, when you got to korea you thought that everyone here lived in small huts and did nothing but harvest rice?
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

otis wrote:

The troops completed the mission.

Saddam is dangling from the end of a rope.

Now it's up to the Iraqi people.

Not another US service member should give their life to support the current Iraqi president--a man who is in bed with a punk like Sadr.

The Iraqi people have spoken, and this is what they said:

"We prefer living in the Middle Ages. Going to the bathroom in the backyard with the family Camel is our kind of scene. We are knuckle-dragging dirt-eaters! Always have been; always will be. Now leave us alone. We have religious enemies to kill."

What? An American has to die over that?


It's too bad people weren't talking about this when the war started. One of the reasons I was against the war was because the US was writing a cheque its ass can't carry. Now that it's obvious the US leadership vastly overestimated its capabilities, it doesn't mean they can just wash their hands and walk away. This was a danger from the beginning, and no Iraqis should die because the US made a really lame political mistake, broke international law, invaded a country for no good reason, then got bored and left.
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twg



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cerebroden wrote:
otis wrote:
"We prefer living in the Middle Ages. Going to the bathroom in the backyard with the family Camel is our kind of scene. We are knuckle-dragging dirt-eaters! Always have been; always will be.

and let me guess, when you got to korea you thought that everyone here lived in small huts and did nothing but harvest rice?

Replace "rice" with "cotton" and you got what he was leaving behind.

stevemcgarrett wrote:

I really don't know where to begin and really wonder why I should bother. So I won't. It's tiresome.

Oh! No!

PLEASE, Steve! Please don't deny us all the informed wisdom that can only twenty eight PhDs, and an undying love of 70s musical icons like David Cassidy can bring the world!
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the bet that if otis had been born an Iraqi he'd be one of the first ones out there settling scores and rolling around in the dirt chanting Allahu akhbar'?
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
This thread might contain the single largest string of inane, historically uninformed responses I have ever read on this forum (from the Left, Right, and sideways).

I really don't know where to begin and really wonder why I should bother. So I won't. It's tiresome.


translation: I really can't produce a counter argument, so I'll stick to what I do best: ad hominem attacks! and when people come back at me with their own, I'll chastise them for it. GENIUS!

Quote:
Oh! No!

PLEASE, Steve! Please don't deny us all the informed wisdom that can only twenty eight PhDs, and an undying love of 70s musical icons like David Cassidy can bring the world!


Laughing Yes, please don't.
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twg and buncheonbum:

Are you two socks for one another, or just help each other put on socks in the morning?

Funny how the forum's snipers can dish it out but can't take it. And when it comes to mounting, it's not arguments but ponies in front of the K-Mart stores for you guys.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old fat expat wrote:
Quote:
Supposition #1: The current problems leading to the civil war are the direct and sole result of American intervention


For what it�s worth:

    1. The U.S., after being kicked out of Iran, aided and supported Saddam�s rise to power-they wanted leverage in the region.
    2. The U.S. (and France) aided Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war�even after Iraq used chemical weapons.
    3. The U.S. encouraged Kuwait to sell off their oil and force the price of oil down at the end of the Iraq-Iran war; but assured Kuwait they would defend Kuwait should Iraq take exception.
    4. U.S. Ambassador Glassby assured Saddam that the U.S. had no position regarding any border dispute Iraq had with Kuwait 2 days before Iraq invaded Kuwait.
    5. At the end of the first Gulf War President Bush Snr. encouraged an uprising within Iraq and alluded to U.S. support should such an uprising take place.
    6. After 9-11 the U.S. stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; and that there was a close link between El Qaeda and Saddam. Neither were true.
    7. After the invasion of Iraq, the Bathist police force was disbanded by U.S. forces leaving no civilian police force and creating a power vacuum.
    8. The U.S. failed miserably in planning for peace after the war, and continues to fail.


Quote:
Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people.


Hmm, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. When you are the world�s greatest military power, good intentions are not enough. With all that money and power you�d think there would be a little more time spent on analysis. When you fail on that level you should be punished.

I support the U.S in the invasion of Afghanistan. The whole world did (mostly). The U.S. neo-cons have squandered that good will and are now inflaming the whole Middle East.

Hell, weren�t there enough problems in the Middle East without George W�s bravado?

stevemcgarrett - care to address this post?
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shifter2009



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's too bad people weren't talking about this when the war started. One of the reasons I was against the war was because the US was writing a cheque its ass can't carry. Now that it's obvious the US leadership vastly overestimated its capabilities, it doesn't mean they can just wash their hands and walk away. This was a danger from the beginning, and no Iraqis should die because the US made a really lame political mistake, broke international law, invaded a country for no good reason, then got bored and left.[/quote]

Its not an overestimation of the countries capabilties. The US is fully capable of achieving its goals. The full military force of the United States was never brought to bear in Iraq. Its a matter of willingness, political entanglement, and overconfidence. Among other things. The US government isn't gonna do what it takes to win the war and leave something like a stable government, so it should leave and do so pronto. Its delaying the inevitable.
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone ever lived in any of the GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) nations?

I had lived in the gulf (Kuwait) for 3 months and I have found that itis enough time to figure out that most of the Gulf arabs (Iraqis included) are very lazy and ill-motivated to doing anything to improve their own lives.

Most rely on foreign labor (from lowly skilled jobs to high-profile HR positions) because they consider doing such work is below them (more so than Koreans think).

The reason why most of the insurgents are foreigners (from some of the lower-income countries like Syria and Yemen [with the exception of Saudis, who view the Iraq insurgency as a "Jihad"]) is because most Iraqis are tired of war, tired of fighting and only want to make money.
It is the Ba'athists that keep funding the insurgency with stolen or "redirected" oil funds to keep pressure on the so-called Iraqi "government". Iran is involved because they need an ally to counter the rising power and influence of Saudi Arabia (no kidding!)

But if foreigners were not involved, if the US (both military and private interests) pulled out, and if there were a strong leadership (one that actually gave a damn), it would be a very prosperous country.

I really have to say, this is going to be our first military failure since Vietnam.

I think the US should just stick to invading tiny South American countries like Panama and Grenada, that is the only capacity the US military is trained for....
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seoulsucker



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted this in the current events forum, but thought it was relevant to this discussion as well...

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=77460[/url]
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