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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: Today's anti-Muslim racism uncannily echoes anti-semitism |
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I've found myself often wondering about the people I meet (here and in real life) who seem so ready to despise all muslims. I can imagine that if they'd been born into prewar Germany, they'd have been easily manipulated by anti-semitic propaganda.
Here is an interesting article that explores that.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2004258,00.html
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Migrants fleeing persecution and poverty settled with their children in the East End of London. As believers in one God they were devoted to their holy book, which contained strict religious laws, harsh penalties and gender inequality. Some of them established separate religious courts. The men wore dark clothes and had long beards; some women covered their hair. A royal commission warned of the grave dangers of self-segregation. Politicians said different religious dress was a sign of separation. Some migrants were members of extremist political groups. Others actively organised to overthrow the established western political order. Campaigners against the migrants carefully framed their arguments as objections to "alien extremists" and not to a race or religion. A British cabinet minister said we were facing a clash about civilisation: this was about values; a battle between progress and "arrested development".
All this happened a hundred years ago to Jewish migrants seeking asylum in Britain. The political movements with which they were closely associated were anarchism and later Bolshevism. As in the case of contemporary political violence, or even the radical Islamism supported by a minority of British Muslims, anarchism and Bolshevism only commanded minority support among the Jewish community. But shared countries of origin and a common ethnic and religious background were enough to create a racialised discourse whenever there were anarchist outrages in London in the early 20th century.
Most anarchists were peaceful, but a few resorted to violent attacks such as the bombing of Greenwich Observatory in 1894 - described at the time as an "international terrorist outrage". Anarchist violence was an international phenomenon. In Europe it claimed hundreds of lives, including those of several heads of government, and resulted in anti- terrorism laws. In the siege of Sidney Street in London in 1911, police and troops confronted east European Jewish anarchists. This violent confrontation in the heart of London created a racialised moral panic in which the whole Jewish community was stigmatised. It was claimed that London was "seething" with violent aliens, and the British establishment was said to be "in a state of denial". East End Jews were said to be "alienated", not "integrated", and a "threat to our security" a long time before anyone dreamed up the phrase "Londonistan".
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Islam isn't a race. Islam is an idea. Disliking Islam isn't racism, it is ideacism. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Its also an idea whose central tenet is an aggressive attack on OUR values and our beliefs: democacy, freedom of speech and though, freedom from religion, freedom of religion. Islam stands for all that we should have left behind in the dark ages: discrimination of women, blind subservience to some entity, backward ignorance. And its all so violent. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| And its all so violent. |
A gross mischaracterization. I'd also add and ask, have you ever really thought about the things YOU suggest and advocate/say? They are also very violent indeed. Time to change houses, your glass is cracked.
I think the analogy between migrant Muslims of present and the wave of Jewish migration at the end of the 19th and turn of last century is helpful and accurate. For a good backdoor view of this, read some Singer as he writes of the problems of the Yiddish Hasidim in N.Y. Unfortunately, despite the bigotry, the violence and discrimination, the Bal Shem Tov never intervened or appeared......
DD |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Islam isn't a race. Islam is an idea. Disliking Islam isn't racism, it is ideacism. |
Judaism isn't a race. Judaism is an idea. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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bb, why did you post this? Do we really need another 5-7 pages of me pointing out truth and dd calling me names?
Muslims have their own nations and should stay in them. There is an endless amount of historical evidence that they are not able to remain peaceful when not in total control. Why continue pretending that their "religion" doesn't directly command them to kill the kuffar? It does. In many different passages. Islam is based upon a psychotic separation between kuffar and believer. There is no "golden rule" in islam that applies to kuffar.
Now, on to the op. It is not racist to hate islam. Islam is not a race. This is elementary logic that has escaped leftists like bb. But to hate individual muslims because they are muslim is ignorant, yet still not racist. islam has conquered/brainwashed people of all races.
This is only going to get worse. Every single Brit I know here in Singapore wants the muslims out. Even my vegan, gay classmate from a town in the UK I've never heard of will tell me in great detail why they must leave. Last I was in Europe, the ethnic Europeans would whisper about wanting them to go home, as it was still considered taboo. No more. They now speak openly and loudly about it. The divide is getting larger, and the muslims feel more confident due to their increased numbers and a willingness to play the perpetual victim card. I was astonished at the level of hatred for muslims within the Chinese community in Vancouver, last I was there. As they describe it, tension between Chinese-muslim young men is high, as is Indian-muslim.
Allowing them to settle in large numbers in Western nations is a profoundly bad idea. Their culture is different than ours, and the two don't coexist well. This will be the issue of the next 20 years in Europe. Canada and Australia won't be immune either.
Last edited by thepeel on Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| Islam isn't a race. Islam is an idea. Disliking Islam isn't racism, it is ideacism. |
Judaism isn't a race. Judaism is an idea. |
Jewish is both an ethnicity and an idea. Islam is only an idea. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Funny title....the arab haters put on a parade against the jew haters |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Judaism isn't a race. Judaism is an idea. |
Incorrect. Jew is a race and a religion.
Islam on the other hand isn't a religion, its a form of government that that settles for being a religion when it is out of power. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Islam isn't a religion, it's a cult. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |
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This thread is like fly paper!
DD |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:03 am Post subject: |
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I suppose superficially the two resemble each other, but only to the extent that they both resemble every other anti-___-ism. But a full blown echo? No. The root causes of each are separated by a mile-wide chasm.
You could reasonably argue that all the things the Jews were accused of, from using Christian baby blood and poisoning wells to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, were complete twaddle.
I'm not at all saying that all the things Muslims are accused of are fact, but there's at least a kernel of truth in a good number them.
The backlash against Jews in the middle ages was based on supersitition and fear and intolerance.
The backlash against Muslims today didn't start up in earnest until Muslim terrorists began their continuing campaign.
Yes yes, the West is no doubt partially responsible and the Muslim terrorism is no doubt backlash against injustices, real and imaginarily manipulated, but there is, at least, some rational grounding behind the fear of Ascendant Islam. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| I can't believe there are people foolish enough, who can't see the that Islam is not a race... ...Big Bird do you have the Brain Power to understand this..?? |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| This will be the issue of the next 20 years in Europe. Canada and Australia won't be immune either. |
OMFG! They're gonna be under every bed and around every corner, and the vast majority are just going to give up 2000 years of culture as well as being able to buy porn simply due due to the mere presence of a Islamic minority!
This is an important message and I think folks like yourself need to be just a slight bit more shrill about your "end of western civilization" predictions if you want to be heard. Of course, all of those other minorities we were warned about in the past failed to do it, but we can keep hoping the Muslims get it right. Don't you agree?
Then we can all hide in our bunkers and high-five each other over being right. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| If I were a hindu in Kashmir, or a buddhist in southern Thailand, or a christian in Africa, or a russian in the caucasus, or an Australian backpacker in Bali, or a cartoonist in Denmark, or a feminist, or a homosexual, or a Dutch film maker, or a muslim apostate etc. etc. how exactly would my fear of Muslims make me just like an easily manipulated anti-semite in pre-war Germany? |
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