Korean Job Discussion Forums

[captain kirk]

I've been teaching in hagwons for years. Was in a public school (elementary) for a semester once, in Taiwan.

For those who like to chat I wonder if you could throw out a few words about the difference between the atmosphere/vibes/expectations in a public school job as compared to a hagwon.

Elaborating on differences that spring from (list) and how these realities manifest in behaviors, situations, attitudes, and so on in your days teaching English in the public school.

-public school teachers are career teachers
-public school teachers are a large group in a large organization, building, school
-public school has a 'reputation for education' to uphold (while a hagwon is more 'behind closed doors').
-public school has 'banker's hours' and there's much seated loafing

And so on but, in particular, stuff to look out for, faux pas, and what's the management style like.

I'm going into a public school job and the supervisor seems so...pompous, stuffy, by the book (and some good qualities like, perhaps, more psychologically normal/stable than the typical hagwon management at its worst). Just seems self-important like he's speaking from within a well of years of public school work with acres of time to kill, and so he's finicky, fussy. I get the impression he thinks I'm a busboy about to serve tables in his fancy, public school restaurant. Anyone else have to wear a suitjacket at public school elementary? Apparently all male teachers at the school do. Hot...suitjacket...why? ahhhhghhhh! I'm feeling a bit vicious from the last hagwon experience and anticipating a first run at a Korean Public School elementary job, which will hopefully be better in important ways.

Anything you have to offer about the Public School Experience. Thanks.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

If all the male teachers at your new school have to wear a suit it could actually be a good sign - a sign that they expect professionalism at all times.

Or it could be a sign of analism, who knows?

At any rate, for me the biggest difference between the two has been co-workers who are used to dealing with students, not customers. So much of the BS that most hogwan teachers have to work around just doesn't exist at my school.

[captain kirk]

Thanks. Do you find that your temper soothed in that atmosphere, or are there annoyances from management and co-teachers that are comparable to those experienced in a badly managed hagwon, one where the students, who are customers, are pampered and the teacher comes second? I feel a bit irate after my hagwon experiences and would like to know if one needs to relax for public school, being in the public eye and all. And how the management and other teachers differ from the rush of hagwon life.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[kimchi story]

My experience has been pretty similiar to Yu's, above. I have a 'director' as well, who is the senior department and will be a vp next year.

He is a by-the-book kind of guy (in a union sort of way), and spelled out expectations to me early on (be at school by 8:20, leave at 4:30 - do whatever you like during that time if you don't have classes but BE THERE at those times).

He took me out hiking in October, we then got smashed on makali and he took me home for galbi with his family.

Using this as an example, the biggest difference I have found in the public system (I did a year and a half at an ECC in '01-02) is the air of colegiality. It just doesn't exist in most hogwans.

The first week I was there I was introduced to the whole staff at a staff meeting by my director and he was clear to spell out my qualifications and experience. Then they gave me a bouquet.

I especially agree with the totem pole metaphor - being just to the side makes being near the bottom quite tolerable. The foreign teacher is a trenscendental figure in a clearly defined regime with a lot of fairly well educated colleagues.

[captain kirk]

Thanks very much, that's exactly what I was looking for. The totem pole and being at the bottom and just to the side. Y's list of who's important is a sticky, I'll keep that in my headlights for sure. Korea and its hierarchical template in hand as a guide, I'll fumble for the ball! And be modest and await, not demand, my banquet, hahaha.

[JJJ]

I would say it's a roll of the dice with respect to how you are treated in public schools. I have heard great things at some schools with native teachers and Korean teachers going out once a month for dinners, movies, drinks, singing, etc. Other schools took the teachers out hiking, camping, ski trips...all paid for. Some schools have great school spirit while others do not. Mine does not, and it is one of the main reasons while I will finish my year and start a new job.

6 months to go.

[pest2]

As someone who's worked in both kinds of places, Id say that pretty much everything written above is true.

Also, whereas working in hakwons can be annoying because the #1 priority is to make profit, working in a public school avails more resources and freedom about how to use those resources. You dont have to worry about using too much paper when copying for a class activity, for example. You have access to your own PC, probably.

In addition to resources, the non-profit thing means that you dont have to worry about keeping all the students happy in a way that will make it seem to thier parents that they should keep attending. In a hakwon, if a student really really hates it, they might try to find a way to convince their parents to let them withdraw (often by blaming you and creating lies to corroborate that blame). But in public schools, they have to go, like it or not.

Both of these above aspects have negative sides, too...

Not being run for profit implies a kind of beuracratic apathy and lack of concern that can severely inconvenience you in case anything goes wrong with your paycheck, living situation, or other issues that would normally require some help from the employer. For example, in my province right now, according to an informal poll conducted on a yahoo group, 60% of the EPIK teachers say "support received is below expectation". Maybe its because nearly half dont have hot water in the apartment given to them. Maybe its because they dont have heat. Some weren't paid enough or on time, etc etc.... These problems seem not to be the effect of some dishonest business person wanting to line their pockets with a little extra cash. It seems to be the case that in Korea, the system that deals with foreigners teaching in public schools has not properly planned ways for dealing with issues that arise for schools, teachers, and coteachers in those schools. There is no one whose job it is to take care of those problems, much less a person to oversee it. No one is being paid to do it = its not getting done.

Insofar as students are concerned, the fact that students who dont want to be must stay also means that your classes might be full of more students whose levels are low and who lack incentive and motivation to learn...

Another positive no one mentioned is that most public school teachers (at least ones I've met) are a little more open and culturally-worldly. Maybe its because they're a little brighter (the test to become a public school teacher in Korea is quite difficult) and better traveled and better educated. Additionally, they seem to be happier because they get paid much better to do less work (and this means they wont resent you for the money you get paid).

[gsxr750r]

Some things hold true, whether you're working in a hagwon, public school, or university: Koreans often wait until the last minute to inform you of anything, if they bother to at all.

[rothkowitz]

One thing to bear in mind with the smaller hagwons is that EVERYTHING can be transient.

The foreign teachers,the Korean teachers,the admin people who are probably getting paid 1.0 per month or similar,and the whole enterprise itself.

[captain kirk]

Yes, about the public school teachers being a little better educated than the staff at hagwons, a little more worldly having the job security to establish a peaceful, confident life rich in interests and hobbies (with world travel at vacations). When I worked in Taiwan at the public school I met those 'more worldly', better educated, pro public school teachers and some of them were quite lovely people, fantastic really.

And about EVERYTHING in hagwon life being transient, high ho, absolutely, pass the excitement it's all up for grabs daily. And the boss, usually man oh manipulative, a slippery, snickering Kingpin holding everyone pinned to their position, or else! Or else it could all end right now for you, minions, hahahaha. Man, such good times, gahk.

And, in comparison, hello to the public school life in the provinces half the time in the office talking to the air conditioner, the other half as dynamic as the best times in the hagwon but without the lack of a K teacher observing, thus minus considerable mayhem. I'm actually looking forward to it but leery of letting the wolfman I've become (from howling and snapping at injustice in hagwon life) get unpredictably snappy in the muted, correct, rather 'church-going', proper decorum of public school 'career life'. Kind of a transition from insecurity to banality?, hahaha.

Does the vacation offered at public school jobs vary? At the job I'm going to there are ten days in Summer, ten in Winter. This is better than hagwon life, but is it the standard for public school jobs?

[TheUrbanMyth]

[rawiri]

[quote="pest2"]
Another positive no one mentioned is that most public school teachers (at least ones I've met) are a little more open and culturally-worldly. Maybe its because they're a little brighter (the test to become a public school teacher in Korea is quite difficult) and better traveled and better educated. Additionally, they seem to be happier because they get paid much better to do less work (and this means they wont resent you for the money you get paid).[/quote]


Really?, Of the 20 or so teachers i've worked with 1 is a dink so travels with his wife fairly frequently and the other (my marvelous supervisor) spent a month in florida 5 years or so ago, as opposed to a lot of hagwon aggashi i have worked with who have travelled and/or lived overseas for years at a time, all i have worked with are at least as fluent in english and in most cases are lightyears ahead of your average public school teacher.

[Julius]