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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
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Israel bad Ayrabs good.
This is your very simplistic analysis of my position.
The people of Israel are human beings. And like any population of human beings they will have some saints, some great guys, some good guys, some mediocre guys, some good for nothing guys and some outright scoundrels. The same goes for the Arab population. I am under no illusion that the Arabs are nicer than the Israelis. Each individual must be judged by their own merit.
However, Israel as a political entity, is doing great wrong to the Palestinian population |
Glad you didn't respond to my "Seige of Gaza" point...Good job... Anyway I've NEVER said Israel Good Arabs Bad......Given the number of your posts that critique Israel and the number of your posts that critique the Palestinians...Maybe you could comment on how the Palestinian Political Entities like Fatah and Hamas are doing a GREAT wrong to the Palestinian population..?? Who does the great harm? Those who fire rockets with the intent of AVOIDING civillians? Or those who fire rockets with the intent of killing Civillians and do everything they can to spread as much hate..like teaching children songs about evil joos while praising the martrys and encouraging teens to go after those 72 virgins??? |
I haven't got time to answer your post today. You have laid out too much to discuss, and I only have about 15 minutes of online time left. Perhaps another day. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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BB...ok
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| if you believe that the OT is a legal and binding document granting Israelis a nice bit of real estate, then your position is correct. |
Have you ever mad this critique against the Koran and Hadith? I mean if you can see that it grants Israel a nice bit of real estate can't you see that Islam is after real estate as well...?? Can you piece that one together....?? |
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Gamecock
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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contrarian wrote:
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| Why shouldn't the Israelis annex it. It is the promised land that God gave to Abraham. |
-Sigh-
As a former Christian zionist who lived in the West Bank for 2 years working to convert the heathen Arabs, I can tell you that any sort of dialogue with contrarian or those like him are useless. The Old Testament says Jews are good and Philistines are bad. That's the end of the story. All other facts be damned. Save your breath. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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and the Koran says exactly what in regards to Jews???
enlighten me. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Hell don't leave it at just the Koran look at the life of Muhammed THE prophet. (and when I say THE I mean for you and me and everybody else) |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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postfundie
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| Hell don't leave it at just the Koran look at the life of Muhammed THE prophet. (and when I say THE I mean for you and me and everybody else) |
As compared to the wonderful New Testament where if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour your going to hell - and that applies to you and me and everybody else.
sundubuman
Lost cause.
Gamecock
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| As a former Christian zionist... |
What snapped you out of it? Maybe we could bottle it and vaccinate the population. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| As compared to the wonderful New Testament where if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour your going to hell - and that applies to you and me and everybody else |
yeah and that's a big FAT problem....Another bigger and fatter problem is that people can't see this in the Koran...oh yeah and by the way which has more references to hell and fire for the non believers? The New Testament or the Koran....??? (have you read both..I have ...and just in case you may be tempted to think the N.T. and Koran are just the same thing...which one mentions love as an attribute of God and which one does not????) |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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The Bible must be taken in its entireity. The Old Testamant leads to the new Testamant and Christ comes to "fulfill" the law and start a new dispensation. The Evangelicals get stuck on Paul and darn near ignore the rest of the Bible - they are wrong.
On the other hand, when the Bible is read, it becomes quite clear that the promised land was given through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to Israel. Now the Jews claim it and most Christians accept them as the rightful hiers to the covenant.
The next question is; what about the Palestinians. Since the 1920's to the present time, the Palestinians has acted badly. They threw away several chances to get a better deal than at present. The should have taken what Barak was willing to give them. Now with the wall going up, the will get even less than that. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand, when the Bible is read, it becomes quite clear that the promised land was given through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to Israel. Now the Jews claim it and most Christians accept them as the rightful hiers to the covenant.
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Hate to be the one to break this to you, but most people here(and in the world) don't give a royal toss what your holy book says about who owns what land, any more than they care what L. Ron Hubbard says about it.
And I'd wager that even your fellow pro-Israelis are embarrassed to be associated with such mystical nonsense, though they're probably too nice to say it. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Ontheotherhand:
You would be quite surpised what religious Israelis believe The, even the secular Jews, are sometimes are a little put off by the Christian Zionists but they will take their friends where the can get them.
I miss Ari Sharon. The Bulldozer would not have screwed up like Olmert did. I am a Mormon, we look at these things a little differently. BYU has "The BYU Jerusalem Center" for several semesters abroad programs, built right on the Mount of Olives. We have actually agree not to proslyte any Jews or Muslim Arabs and are on good terms with the Israeli government.
I have been pro Israeli since I read Exodus as a teenager. That was before I know I was a Jew by ancestry. I spent 5 years in the Canadian Army as a very junior tank officer, and in 1967 I volunteered to go to Israel with the Israeli army. I get there two days after the way was over and spent about 6 weeks "calibrating guns" (putting new barrels on them).
As a result of that I have an Israeli passport. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:28 am Post subject: re: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
Why shouldn't the Israelis annex it. It is the promised land that God gave to Abraham.
What is illegal abou the occupation? International law is a figment of the imagination. |
International law is a figment of the imagination and God giving Abraham the land of Israel is fact? Did you attend Jesus Camp?
Peace |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
contrarian wrote:
Why shouldn't the Israelis annex it. It is the promised land that God gave to Abraham.
What is illegal abou the occupation? International law is a figment of the imagination.
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you are as naive as dd, but a righty and much less fancy with your word choices |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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postfundie:
Just what is International Law? Can it be enforced? Not unless the big dogs decide to intervene. Then the do it to their own benefit and desires - for example the US and Israel.
Did it work in Cambodia? No
Did it work in Viet Nam? No
Will it work in the Holy land? No
Did is work in Kosovo? Yes, and only because the Americans intervened and bombed the Chinese Embassy.
Did it work when Iran occupied the US Embassy? No.
Did it work in Korea in 1950? Sort of. The Russians boycotted the UN session and we have a war that it stil going on.
Come off it. International law is only what the big powers want it to be. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Come off it. International law is only what the big powers want it to be |
just what is criminal law anyway?
Did it work when Al Capone had people murdered?
Does it work in New York? or L.A. where OJ murdered his ex?
Come on...Criminal Law is only what elites and rich people want it to be. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Those thing you mentioned prove there is criminal law in some nations. |
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