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Universal Military Service?
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seoulunitarian



Joined: 06 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Universal Military Service? Reply with quote

Have any of you seen the recent attempt by some members of Congress to pass a bill requiring universal military service?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.393:

Peace
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Milton Friedman was the man who gave America the volunteer army. He considered it his greatest achievement.
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English_Ocean



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: You don't have the right to abuse me!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a bit shocking. Not only are US citizs to be forced into service but, everyone who lives there. Single parents too?
Confused
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"homeland security"

That term sends shivers up my spine. It sounds so...Soviet. I'm sure this expression will come to symbolize everything that was wrong with the Bush administartion.

PS. I bet the words 'resolve' and 'freedom' were thrown once or twice in there, too.
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Svetlana



Joined: 22 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Universal Military Service is the only way those awful Americans can ever play war with Iran or other big boy countries who can actually fight back.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell us what you really think?
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that a period of "universal service" - not necessarily military - would be a good idea. Only those types who are physically and pyschologically fit for battle should serve directly in a combat zone. Many others may be suited for various tech and medical support roles.

And, even when there is no major war, young people in general should be called upon to perform various types of social service for minimal pay and/or forgiveness of student loans. As for duration of such oompulsory service, I'm thinking one or two years...
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Sincinnatislink



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greater capacity for war is brilliant.
Almost as brilliant as a unitarian blaming it on the christian right.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Yeah, while we're having mandatory service, let's have mandatory intelligence tests before you can have children.

It would do us some good.

Let's have surveillance, too.

Everywhere.

Seriously, I'm all for mandatory service as long as I can also home mandatory serve the way some parents home-school their children.

For that matter, I'll also survey myself.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
Yeah, while we're having mandatory service, let's have mandatory intelligence tests before you can have children.

It would do us some good.

Let's have surveillance, too.

Everywhere.

Seriously, I'm all for mandatory service as long as I can also home mandatory serve the way some parents home-school their children.

For that matter, I'll also survey myself.


Translation: "I disagree with the universal military service proposal. But I do not want to express disagreement inasmuch as show everyone my weak mimicking of John Stewart or some other current-events 'commentator,' hoping all might mistake my cynicism and sneering for 'wit.'"

Oh yeah: you interested in surveiling yourself, chief, or just asking yourself poll questions...? Laughing
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NAVFC



Joined: 10 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Svetlana wrote:
Universal Military Service is the only way those awful Americans can ever play war with Iran or other big boy countries who can actually fight back.


BS. We could kick Iran's ass anytime.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NAVFC wrote:
We could kick Iran's ass anytime.


Probably, NAVFC. But the military warns us that there would be consequences.

By the way, when three retired officers from this level...

Quote:
The letter was signed by retired Army Lt. Gen. Robert Gard, a former military assistant to Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, retired U.S. Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Hoar, a former commander in chief of U.S. Central Command; and retired Navy Vice Adm. Jack Shanahan, a former director of the Center for Defense Information.


...coordinate a position and carefully articulate it in public, I am more than certain that this is "the military" speaking. We have a strong tradition of civil-military relations where the active military officially stays out of politics and serves the C-in-C, the NSC, and the President's designated SecDef, in addition to answering to appropriate Congressional committees on issues pertaining to funding.

But the single most fascinating domestic phenomenon about W. Bush's Middle Eastern policies is that they have apparently upset this order, to one degree or another, for what might be the first time in American history. We have seen the military subtly undermine if not outright move against one SecDef. And now we are seeing the military speak against the Administration's Iranian rhetoric outside of the chain-of-command.

Note also that Gates has answered them outside the chain-of-command.

Troubling times.

Finally, Svetlana. Svetlana, do you happen to know whether the Islamic Republic of Iran or the other "big-boy countries who can fight back" force their populations to serve in the military -- that is, compel military service for, say, eighteen months...? Hmm?
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
Translation: "I disagree with the universal military service proposal. But I do not want to express disagreement inasmuch as show everyone my weak mimicking of John Stewart or some other current-events 'commentator,' hoping all might mistake my cynicism and sneering for 'wit.'"

Oh yeah: you interested in surveiling yourself, chief, or just asking yourself poll questions...? Laughing


No, survey works fine for me:

Quote:
sur�vey Pronunciation (sr-v, s�rv)
v. sur�veyed, sur�vey�ing, sur�veys
v.tr.
1. To examine or look at comprehensively.
2. To inspect carefully; scrutinize: "Two women were surveying the other people on the platform" Thomas Wolfe.


Or maybe both. Why do you have to always make it an either/or thing? The world's not black and white, you Rush Limbaugh wannabe.

Razz
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole point of the universal service proposal is to force the "ruling class" (i.E. Congress, etc.) to deal with the real cost of war.

When the Bush twins are put in the position of having to serve, and the sons and daughters of the senators and congress-people, then they might think seriously about commiting the U.S. to further bloody adventures.

I don't think there is a chance of a draft requirement passing Congress. But it does point up the class differences between those who serve and die, and those who don't.

I say, pass a draft, and only give exemptions for religious, or ethical, purposes, and then require alternative service of those who are exempted.

The support for the Vietnam war fell apart as more and more middle class Americans lost children to the inferno. It didn't matter so much when our working class brothers and sisters died.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
I say, pass a draft, and only give exemptions for religious, or ethical, purposes, and then require alternative service of those who are exempted.


You'd probably end up with a situation similar to that of Korea, where politicians' sons often find their way into alternative services.
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