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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: Bird flu is the price of your �5 roast |
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Never in our history have humans consumed so much meat. Once, we would have had it now and again, but today we gobble it down like there is no tomorrow. And we want it every day, for Breakfast, Lunch, Dinnner and even in our snacks. And we want it cheap. Animals, enduring the horrific excessess of factory farming, pay a terrible price. But, will we too pay a horrible price?
Bird flu is the price of your �5 roast
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These fearful diseases are a consequence of our demand for cheap, plentiful meat and poultry
There is something biblical about modern farming. One calamity seems to follow another. Plagues sweep through livestock with terrifying speed. Barely had we got used to television images of sick cows, staggering with BSE, than our screens filled with the pyres of thousands of dead animals, incinerated in an attempt to stop the spread of foot and mouth.
The numbers are barely comprehensible by anyone not involved in the industry. Foot and mouth saw the destruction of seven million sheep and cattle (quite unjustifiably, but that's another story). Avian flu, which has now been diagnosed on one of Bernard Matthews's turkey farms in Suffolk, could, if it takes hold in poultry farms across Britain, be equally devastating. The one infected farm holds 160,000 birds. They will all have to be slaughtered. Frogs, locusts and boils could hardly be worse.
Except that there is something worse. The H5N1 strain of bird flu could, as may have happened with BSE, leap the species barrier. Indeed, in a statistically small number of cases, this has already happened: 164 people have died from the human form of the disease since 2003. The official word for a disease which originates in animals but is passed to humans is zoonosis. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
vegan good, meat producer bad ------- need more kool-aid
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that is fair. Eating meat is hard on our environment, and our modern ways of farming seem to facilitate disease. Now, I'm no vegan. My family were (before BSE) in the cattle biz. I've got experience in the industry and am literally in love with steak. But even I have started to really reevaluate my dietary habits, and how what I eat is impacting my body, my finances and my "footprint" on the world.
I don't think we have to stop eating meat. We should eat less meat, in my opinion. Recently, I read an article about healthy eating that suggested treating meat like a side dish rather than a main dish. I think this is reasonable.
I always try to think of this as if I were an total stranger to earth, looking at us and trying to make sense of our actions. I don't know how a stranger would regard our fetish for eating flesh... And I really doubt that she or he would regard a major swine operation as anything but barbaric and disgusting. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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<Big_Bird finds herself nodding in agreement with BJWD, and nearly falls off her chair> |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote: |
<Big_Bird finds herself nodding in agreement with BJWD, and nearly falls off her chair> |
Are you red Dog's sock? Or vice versa? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD wrote: |
I don't think that is fair. Eating meat is hard on our environment, and our modern ways of farming seem to facilitate disease. Now, I'm no vegan. My family were (before BSE) in the cattle biz. I've got experience in the industry and am literally in love with steak. But even I have started to really reevaluate my dietary habits, and how what I eat is impacting my body, my finances and my "footprint" on the world.
I don't think we have to stop eating meat. We should eat less meat, in my opinion. Recently, I read an article about healthy eating that suggested treating meat like a side dish rather than a main dish. I think this is reasonable.
I always try to think of this as if I were an total stranger to earth, looking at us and trying to make sense of our actions. I don't know how a stranger would regard our fetish for eating flesh... And I really doubt that she or he would regard a major swine operation as anything but barbaric and disgusting. |
Yes, yes my family is still in the cattle biz. No feed lots, just range cattle. I have two uncles that operate "major swine operations". I don't understand your need to pretend to act like an alien to earth. WTF? You think you can project being ET? Sorry, that's just....well....way out there. Your comments about eating less meat I can understand. You do know that there are those out there that say the total abolition of meat consumption is their goal.
To the OP. Maybe we're consuming more meat as planet now because there are more of us now than ever before? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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jinju wrote: |
Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
Me? All I'm saying is that we should consider the effect that our actions have upon our environment and health. I'm not suggesting legislation or eco-nonsense. Just be mindful of our footprint. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD wrote: |
jinju wrote: |
Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
Me? All I'm saying is that we should consider the effect that our actions have upon our environment and health. I'm not suggesting legislation or eco-nonsense. Just be mindful of our footprint. |
Sorry, WTF why do you keep blathering on about footprints? Me eating a steak leaves a very negligible "footprint". If you want to talk about footprints, then we need to start swimming home from abroad instead of taking those god-awful polluting planes. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD wrote: |
jinju wrote: |
Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
Me? All I'm saying is that we should consider the effect that our actions have upon our environment and health. I'm not suggesting legislation or eco-nonsense. Just be mindful of our footprint. |
To what end? Why consider it? Theres NOTHING to consider. Our so called footprint is a bunch of crap thought up by eco nazis and animal rights lunatics for whom animals are more important than people. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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wannago wrote: |
To the OP. Maybe we're consuming more meat as planet now because there are more of us now than ever before? |
It's not merely that. Once upon a time we used to farm very differently. Now, due to modern technology, we've developed intensive farming, which allows us to produce meat at a phenomenal rate. This does have an enormous impact on the environment in ways that few people appreciate; it uses more land (for growing cash crops), more water, more fossil fuel etc. Rather than go into it in a post, I might look around for some links for those who wish to read more about it.
Also, some societies that used to be almost vegetarian are rapidly acquiring a taste for meat. Think Korea, and much more alarmingly, think China. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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wannago wrote: |
BJWD wrote: |
I don't think that is fair. Eating meat is hard on our environment, and our modern ways of farming seem to facilitate disease. Now, I'm no vegan. My family were (before BSE) in the cattle biz. I've got experience in the industry and am literally in love with steak. But even I have started to really reevaluate my dietary habits, and how what I eat is impacting my body, my finances and my "footprint" on the world.
I don't think we have to stop eating meat. We should eat less meat, in my opinion. Recently, I read an article about healthy eating that suggested treating meat like a side dish rather than a main dish. I think this is reasonable.
I always try to think of this as if I were an total stranger to earth, looking at us and trying to make sense of our actions. I don't know how a stranger would regard our fetish for eating flesh... And I really doubt that she or he would regard a major swine operation as anything but barbaric and disgusting. |
Yes, yes my family is still in the cattle biz. No feed lots, just range cattle. I have two uncles that operate "major swine operations". I don't understand your need to pretend to act like an alien to earth. WTF? You think you can project being ET? Sorry, that's just....well....way out there. |
Sometimes the way we act is irrational, but we continue to act that way because of habit and culture. When I say I try to be an outsider looking in, I mean that I try to escape my own hard-wired habits and behaviors and evaluate them as would someone who didn't have cultural points of contact with my society... Maybe thats confusing....I'm really busy right now and can't explain it more..
I am no eco-nut. I'm just trying, as of late, to be more aware of how I am impacting the earth and my body. I'm solidly atheist. This is the only life I get, and I want it to last as long as possible. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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jinju wrote: |
BJWD wrote: |
jinju wrote: |
Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
Me? All I'm saying is that we should consider the effect that our actions have upon our environment and health. I'm not suggesting legislation or eco-nonsense. Just be mindful of our footprint. |
To what end? Why consider it? Theres NOTHING to consider. Our so called footprint is a bunch of crap thought up by eco nazis and animal rights lunatics for whom animals are more important than people. |
I'm not an animal rights kinda guy. I can feel myself intellectually leaning towards eating less meat for a wide variety of reasons, but that is 100% personal and as a libertarian I will never seek to impose my personal ideas of what is right and wrong on you or anybody. I'm even uncomfortable discussing it, actually. But, encouraging people to evaluate how their actions impact the environment isn't radical stuff. Especially, again, given my unwillingness to impose my ideas on you.
"Footprint" is a flaky term. I feel icky using it. But it describes best what I mean. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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To start you off, here is an alarming fact sheet by PETA.
Eating meat leaves behind an environmental toll that generations will be forced to pay
Pollution
The meat industry causes more water pollution in theUnited States than any other industry because theanimals raised for food produce 130 times moreexcrement than the entire human population�86,600 pounds per second. A typical pig factoryfarm generates raw waste equivalent to that of a city of 12,000 people.
Land
Of all agricultural land in the United States, 87 percent is used to raise animals for food. Twenty thousand pounds of potatoes can be grown on one acre of land, but only 165 pounds of beef can be produced in the same space.
Water
Raising animals for food consumes more than halfof all the water used in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. Theamount of water used in the production of the averagesteer could float a destroyer.
Deforestation
Rainforests are being destroyed at a rate of 125,000square miles per year to create space to raiseanimals for food. Fifty-five square feet of land are consumed for every quarter-pound fast-foodburger made of rainforest beef.
Energy
Raising animals for food requires more than one-thirdof all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the UnitedStates. Producing a single hamburger patty uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles and enough water for 17 showers. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD wrote: |
jinju wrote: |
BJWD wrote: |
jinju wrote: |
Sorry, this is Red Dog lunacy territory. |
Me? All I'm saying is that we should consider the effect that our actions have upon our environment and health. I'm not suggesting legislation or eco-nonsense. Just be mindful of our footprint. |
To what end? Why consider it? Theres NOTHING to consider. Our so called footprint is a bunch of crap thought up by eco nazis and animal rights lunatics for whom animals are more important than people. |
I'm not an animal rights kinda guy. I can feel myself intellectually leaning towards eating less meat for a wide variety of reasons, but that is 100% personal and as a libertarian I will never seek to impose my personal ideas of what is right and wrong on you or anybody. I'm even uncomfortable discussing it, actually. But, encouraging people to evaluate how their actions impact the environment isn't radical stuff. Especially, again, given my unwillingness to impose my ideas on you.
"Footprint" is a flaky term. I feel icky using it. But it describes best what I mean. |
Im not saying you are wrong. If you are going to stop eating meat or eat less its your choice. I also try to eat less of it because I find it rather boring to eat too often. BUT I consider the environemnatlist and animal rights lunatics to be nothing short of eco nazis.
1. Theres no footprint
2. Animals are a commodity to be used as we see fit. They DONT have rights. |
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