Korean Job Discussion Forums

[julian_w]

Recent whaling near Aotearoa - NZ

[sadsac]

The question needs to be asked, "Why avoid Japan?" because they are whaling. They make no secret of the fact that they are a whaling nation and they aint gonna stop. Whales or not, I'll still visit the place and enjoy myself.

[goodgood]

Korea goes a-whalin', too, don't they?

Koreans eat dogs- is that a reason to avoid it?

I like little chickens too, but I haven't moved to space to avoid people killing chickens.

(I've eaten dog and whale. Both were pretty ok)

[just because]

i have eaten whale meat (고래고기) twice in my time in korea, both times near ulsan...

To be honest it seems to be more available here than it ever was in japan....

[oneofthesarahs]

I unwittingly had whale meat here in Korea. I thought it was kind of gross. The texture was weird.

I sort of liked bosintang though.

[julian_w]

sadsac:

Good question.
The world's second largest economy - Japan - won't be damaged significantly if you or I decide to do a visa run elsewhere... unless we make it a well-publicised event which catches on in other contexts and other countries; and even then it's more about loss of face, which we should then debate in relation to its intercultural context, and we would probably even then agree is not necessarily immediately helpful.

We should avoid doing a visa run to Japan - and publicise it - because they
can change, they are changing (the younger generations are generally not eating whale meat - the government's having to give it away in school lunches, etc.), and they don't exist in a vacuum but do actually coexist with other nations.
ie. make no secret of avoiding Japan precisely because they make no secret of the fact that they are a whaling nation. They will stop, either when they look silly from having stockpiles of whale meat their own people just aren't eating (which is happening now...) or when they realise they're damaging their 'own' stocks (which is also generally what's happening to most 'traditional' fishing catches around the world).

But hey, I do hope you enjoy yourself when you visit the place. I really like the beach in Fukoaka.

[julian_w]

goodgood, just because and iguesskindamaybe oneofthesarahs:


Some KoreanS may go whaling, but the general Korean population, including the government, neither approve nor promote the fact that it happens.

The K government does not ban whaling, which happens on a relatively local level for mostly local supply at pojunmacha/ beach-side tent-stall restaurants around Ulsan and other such areas, and seems to be provided for by relatively small-scale individual owner-operators. (Having said that, I have been offered whale meat - 'service' - at a hweh restaurant in Gwangju, Jeollanamdo.)

The major differences I can see between Korea and Japan are that the powers that be within the Japanese government/ hiarachy are the ones who are actually promoting and prompting the industry in Japan, the meat is available on a wide-spread commercial basis throughout supermarket chains there, and they're taking their 'we own the world's waters and all the whales we want' attitude to other countries' waters.


goodgood said: "Koreans eat dogs- is that a reason to avoid it?"

Answer: yes, if you feel that strongly about dogs being eaten, you should do something about it, extending to living elsewhere, for sure.

The differences with the whaling issue are that whales are harder to keep tabs on the regeneration of stocks, so we're risking endangering total 'supply' of the species;
they take a hell of a lot more effort to catch ie. considering carbon footprint/ hidden costs in terms of fuel spent etc. especially at a time when we don't need the protein from the meat ( - the modern Japanese whaling 'industry' grew out of need for food immediately following the second world war);
and finally - despite the fact that they're kinda cold and slimey, can't bring you your newspaper without swallowing it whole, and would squash your car if they took a dump on your back lawn - whales are still kinda cute.

[46long]

How would you know how the general Korean population feels about anything? Let alone whaling. Please state your sources so we'll know you're not another narrow-minded treehugger and take you seriously.
Cheers,
46

[julian_w]

The Korean Herald, Times and International Tribune don't seem to have effective archiving of the articles... altho it's possible that the piece was only in Korean on the day, in which case my Korean's not good enough to pull up the actual article in hangulmal,

but, here's the Greenpeace blog reference from 2005 (I do hope you don't consider them to be too 'narrow-minded tree-huggers');

also a bit on how Japan bought itself some power;

with the help of other nations, also just last year.

And then again, a wee bonus, 'service', a website for whale-meat jerkey pet-food.

[Bramble]

I don't think boycotts of entire countries are very effective. I prefer this approach:

http://garyfrancione.blogspot.com/2006/12/veganism-fundamental-principle-of.html

[46long]

Once again, how would you know how the majority of Korean people feel about anything? I didn't comment on either government's position or your interpretation thereof. I simply asked where you acquired such collective knowledge of the Korean or Japanese mindset. I've lived in Japan for five years and South Korea for two years. My Japanese friends and colleagues are at least aware of the controversy and that many countries' governments and people condemn it(as do many of them). Most Koreans I know are oblivious to such matters. If they are aware of these issues, most of them don't care what other countries and their citizens think.

Bramble, even though not a Vegan myself, I would have to agree with the sentiments of that article in terms of making a difference one person at a time. But boycotting visa runs to Japan? Yeah that'll make them stand up and take notice of whaling issues. A visa run doesn't even generate tourist dollars. Baka.

Read Francione's blog and actually DO something about it if you feel so strongly. Don't spout nonsense.

Cheers,
46

[JeJuJitsu]

What is happening to the earth's whales? The humpback, once more than 1.5 million strong, now numbers fewer than 20,000. The minke whale, once free to swim the ocean's depths in all its smooth, streamlined glory, has seen its population decimated by commercial fishing in a generation. Since regulation and political pressure have failed to produce results, we have only one option left if there's any hope of saving the future of these massive, supple creatures: We must start breeding with them right away, and not stop until they're saved.

I am not na�ve. I know this will be a long, sometimes painful, task. But it is a task we must undertake, no matter the complications inherent in extended periods of underwater copulation.

If we do nothing, we risk depriving our children of these magnificent beasts' tender embrace forever.

There is no longer room for excuses. I am proposing a widespread campaign to preserve the whale's precious habitats, rehabilitate their ecosystems, and titillate their enormous erogenous zones. Who among us can hear the whale sing without being moved by the timeless beauty of the wordless melody? Who can look into those eyes, filled with peace and wisdom, and not be aroused? It is time to consummate my long love affair with the whale in order to prevent its extinction.

I am more than prepared�even excited�to spring into action at a moment's notice to save the whale not only from Japanese poachers, but from the destructive forces of celibacy. The survival of the species, be it toothed or baleen, will be ensured as man and whale writhe together in the surf.

It is hard work finding a whale, let along trying to seduce it. But every worthy endeavor requires sacrifice. Yes, my day-and-night obsession with saving whales cost me my wife and family. But it shall all be worthwhile the first time I glide across the waves atop a gray whale, knowing that we share not only a common ancestry, but a simultaneous orgasm.

What, I ask, could be more satisfying than that?

My campaign to save the whales is a natural progression of my life's work. Wherever a species finds itself in danger, I am there to rescue it through raw, unadulterated fornication. Granted, not all of my efforts toward preserving diversity has been successful. Some say I even had a detrimental effect on the Karner butterfly populations of North America. But despite setbacks�such as my late but strenuous attempts to save the Elfin tree fern�I remain a determined conservationist.

If you want proof of the tonic effects my love can have, just look to the bald eagle: Once on the verge of destruction, they now soar from coast to coast. It is exhausting work, but once complete, you can roll over and fall asleep knowing you have done all that you possibly can.

The time to act is now, and preferably at dusk, when most whales are both disoriented and physiologically predisposed to sexual advances from a fellow mammal.

Still, I am only one man. I do not possess the time or physical stamina to save all the whales myself, as much as I may wish to do so. True, a few have heeded the call and forged deep bonds with the bowhead whale, the beluga, and, in a particularly tragic yet moving instance, the narwhal. But we can still do so much more.

If people could see how a mother blue whale cares for her young, or witness up close the gentle affection of two Baird's beaked whales, they would surely open their hearts, minds, and loins to these endangered and sensuous creatures. We must penetrate them not with harpoons, but with love. For, if there is one force capable of saving the whales, it is love. And I have an abundance of love for the whale.

But let us not dally in abstraction. As we debate, more whales are going to their pointless and cruel deaths. In order to ensure their preservation, it is necessary to take concrete, measurable, and drastic action, and make the beast with two backs and one fin.

We cannot wait for the world to wake up, nor can we wait for our government to construct a tasteful, discreet breeding ground. In fact, we cannot even wait for the aquarium to open in the morning, because I can feel the desire to save several whales growing within me now. I urge anyone who believes in the cause, and also owns a car and a crowbar, to contact me immediately.

[julian_w]

Dear 46long,

Thanks for your input. I appreciate the chance to further clarify my points, and your implicit feedback that you require me to do more than just to �state [my] sources� as mentioned in your original post;

perhaps you actually want me to include excerpts from those sources in order to answer your question as to how I should know what the Korean population feels about anything, although perhaps with regard to the topic at hand: whaling.

There was a poll conducted in June of 2005 of Korean citizens as to whether they approve of whaling. I did have a look for you for more evidence thereof, and unfortunately, as I possess less Korean language skills than necessary for searching Korean papers� online databases (and less time and energy than JeJuJitsu), I was unable to find better than this from the link from Greenpeace listed above:

June 08, 2005

�� Yesterday an ongoing Korean poll registered 57% against whaling, a very good result for a 'pro whaling' nation. ��

http://weblog.greenpeace.org/koreawhales/archives/2005/06/double_0_onejan.html

From memory, the poll was conducted by one of the major Korean daily newspapers.

The other statistics for Japan, as listed in the second link above, were presented further down.

Saturday June 24, 2006
By David McNeill
� �The aid question was tabled by Shokichi Kina, a member of the main opposition Democratic Party of Japan and a well known Okinawa-based environmental activist.
"Japanese people don't even eat whales or dolphins anymore but still the government is pressing ahead with this campaign," he said.
�
An internet survey released last week claimed that over 70 per cent of Japanese people oppose a return to commercial whaling on the high seas.
Whale-consumption has been declining in Japan since the 1960s and is now eaten regularly by less than one-per cent of the population. ��
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10388186


Apart from doing exactly the same as you: talking to friends, colleagues and students about the issues, and occasional searches through the Net, this humble information is all I have to offer as to how I know what Koreans and Japanese people are thinking/ feeling on the whole whaling issue. And, it�s nearly two years out of date, to boot. Oh dear.

...

I had a good read of Francione�s blog. It is well written, isn�t it?!

It�s interesting that you offer the interpretation of that blog/article as being to make a difference one person at a time, and that this approach is enough to be actually and effectively �doing something about it.�

I think Francione is living what he believes, and in that actually doing more than just making a difference by quietly living his own life: he�s also promoting his views and his example via a weblog; he's created an obvious online presence.

Umm� just like I said to Sadsac (and purely in relation to his question as to why one should avoid a visa run there ie. this was not my suggestion, it was his; I was just spelling out a possible rationale for him/her): don�t just do something, but promote the idea, and see if it can catch on.

Of course one little drip such as me won�t change a whole nation by changing where I get a visa stamp� unless the idea spreads, gains publicity, mutates into other forms of action, and gets taken up by others great drips to create a whole current of little drips. � (Kinda like what JeJuJitsu was on about� but maybe a little different, too�)

Other such examples of this kind of action actually making a genuine difference can be seen in recent history in Aotearoa - New Zealand. Witness the anti-nuclear stance that is now seemingly inseperable from the national identity. This actually grew from the idea of some Quakers in Boston who tried to blockade nuclear powered US military craft from entering their harbour. A priest-dude in Auckland adopted the idea, recruited some others, tried the technique, publicity was gained, and then the next time a visiting US craft (I think it was a submarine ... The Truxton, perhaps..?) more pictures were taken, resulting in more publicity... and the rest is lively living history, live and kicking.

And wait until you hear about how New Zealanders brought about the end of apartheid in South Africa...! (... But I'll save that story for another day.)

Well, that�s about all the time and energy I have for this stimulating conversation for today. I do wish I had JeJuJitsu�s energy/ stamina/ commitment to the cause. Honestly, that's the best entry I can remember seeing in these hallowed pages since Panthermodern used to hang out here. All I can say is: JJJ, you�re inspirational!

PS.

Hey, 46long, by the way, I was really curious to hear that visa runs don�t generate tourist dollars.

That�s fantastic! Wonderful news! Please, quick; tell us all how you manage to do a visa run without spending any money, � especially as, if going to Japan, it requires one to spend a night in that country. I�d sure be really glad to know how you do that one! Isai!

[Cohiba]

Mmmmmmm sperm whale. aghhhhhhhhh.

[mindmetoo]

Or you could teach in Japan and teach kids about the evils of whaling.