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Land of the free, home of the brave?
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
He's not stupid. Was he unaware that once a decade America uses the army to fight a morally ambiguous conflict?
Did he think his experience would be different?


What "ambiguity"? Morally bankrupt is a lot more like it Idea

WAR PIGS

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of deaths construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor


Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has sturck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!



Last edited by igotthisguitar on Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pateach



Joined: 11 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject: Questions-they won't be too popular Reply with quote

Ok, so let's pretend we're him. He joins the servivce in a reactionary moment of patriotic zeal after 9/11. Then, He's IN. He doesn't have the luxury of sitting in a hoff reading Hemingway and making snide comments about the government while drinking too much soju. He's got a weapon and orders to go fight and likely kill people (hopefully insurgents), in Iraq.
But he thinks it's morally wrong. What should he do? Just go do it because he signed the paper and that's his duty? This question may be unpoular here, but are duty and bravery the same thing?
It's easier for me to write this as a non-soldier, but both Thoreau and Martin Luther King, Jr., have written eloquently on the moral duty of the American Individual to stand up to an unjust law. If he truly, honesty feels that fighting in Iraq is an immoral choice then I actuualy think that going and fighting just cause he's "supposed to" shows more cowardice, just moral cowardice.
Yes, Americans would be screwed if all the officers picked and chose when to fight. I'm not saying he shouldn't have to take the consequences for his decision. Just consider, couldn't it be true that in some cases, like his, fighting "because you're suppoosed to" could also be cowardly?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions-they won't be too popular Reply with quote

Pateach wrote:
Ok, so let's pretend we're him. He joins the servivce in a reactionary moment of patriotic zeal after 9/11. Then, He's IN. He doesn't have the luxury of sitting in a hoff reading Hemingway and making snide comments about the government while drinking too much soju. He's got a weapon and orders to go fight and likely kill people (hopefully insurgents), in Iraq.
But he thinks it's morally wrong. What should he do? Just go do it because he signed the paper and that's his duty? This question may be unpoular here, but are duty and bravery the same thing?


Yes. He should either obey legal orders or do what he's doing. Miss movement and go to jail. No American court has declared the war illegal. There is a big difference between an officer disobeying a clearly illegal order, shooting women and children, and deciding that a whole war is illegal. The only down side is he doesn't appear to be given the chance to argue the war is illegal. I would much prefer if he could argue that with his day in court. He'd lose, of course, but at least he'd be stating his piece and taking his lumps.

I will give him that. He's not bugged out and gone to Canada. He's at least going to take his thumping.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions-they won't be too popular Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
I will give him that. He's not bugged out and gone to Canada. He's at least going to take his thumping.


Good point.

In taking a principled moral stand, he's showing his true valour.

In fact come to think of it, he really IS fighting a war. Right where he should be as well. ON THE HOMEFRONT Idea Idea Idea

BRING EM HOME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LYNIm3xMQo
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