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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I didn't say "taxes are meant to discourage" but that "taxes discourage". It is what economists call the law of unintended consequences. We inact policy to create outcome "X" and end up creating "A,B,C" as an unpredicted result. |
And if you tax consumption, then you discourage people from buying things. Granted, Americans need to start saving their money. But if people stop buying things, the economy is worse off. So uninentended consequences work both ways. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
I didn't say "taxes are meant to discourage" but that "taxes discourage". It is what economists call the law of unintended consequences. We inact policy to create outcome "X" and end up creating "A,B,C" as an unpredicted result. |
And if you tax consumption, then you discourage people from buying things. Granted, Americans need to start saving their money. But if people stop buying things, the economy is worse off. So uninentended consequences work both ways. |
Like I said earlier, tax the consumption that we don't want. As in pollution and the careful application of "sin-taxes" and such. Don't tax bread and essentials. But tax the hell out of cars, for example. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
BWJD, most of this governments revenue comes from income tax.
Without income tax America would not be what it is today without it.
Unless you can supply a system that makes up for said lost revenue, thats actually PRACTICAL and not the super high fines for everything under the sun crap that your spouting now, then your just being foolish.
Even in that scenario, your still losing money!
Income tax is a good thing.. especially come W-2 time when you get some of it back. |
I do not accept that taxes and government are what has made your country great. And to the extent that government has helped capitalism (the real cause) along, it has been via the protection of persons/property and running the courts. Those services could be provided with a minimal tax. I would think that 1% of GDP would suffice.
The budget this year is 2.2 trillion. That will destroy your nation. Turn it into a debt-ridden failed state. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Like I said earlier, tax the consumption that we don't want. As in pollution and the careful application of "sin-taxes" and such. Don't tax bread and essentials. But tax the hell out of cars, for example. |
It's an admirable goal. I agree with the intent, but I see several problems:
1. I don't see taxes from those industries being nearly enough to cover even a very scaled down US government.
2. Spending on "bad" things, is still spending, and is still good for the economy.
3. The more you tax, the less people consume. The less tax revenues you get.
4. A lot of people in the US must have cars to get around. Trucks are a major source of transportation as well. Taxing them even more will effect the economy to some extent. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, fair enough.
I think my idea of a "scaled down government" would differ from 99% of the rest of the world. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Yeah, fair enough.
I think my idea of a "scaled down government" would differ from 99% of the rest of the world. |
The problem is, when you ask people if they want to pay less taxes, they almost always say yes.
When you ask them if they want more money for the schools, better roads, better parks, better defense, more police, etc. etc., they inevitably say yes to all of these things as well.
So you can't really blame the politicians. Not when the politicians who try to cut services tend to get voted out of office. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
BWJD, most of this governments revenue comes from income tax.
Without income tax America would not be what it is today without it.
Unless you can supply a system that makes up for said lost revenue, thats actually PRACTICAL and not the super high fines for everything under the sun crap that your spouting now, then your just being foolish.
Even in that scenario, your still losing money!
Income tax is a good thing.. especially come W-2 time when you get some of it back. |
I do not accept that taxes and government are what has made your country great. And to the extent that government has helped capitalism (the real cause) along, it has been via the protection of persons/property and running the courts. Those services could be provided with a minimal tax. I would think that 1% of GDP would suffice.
1 percent? HA!!! You need to take a economics class
The budget this year is 2.2 trillion. That will destroy your nation. Turn it into a debt-ridden failed state. |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Income taxes, yes. How aren't income taxes stealing? |
Well, I pay taxes. Those taxes provide me with services and infrastructure for our economy. I like to drive my car on roads, having someone pick up my garbage and take it someplace, pick up recycling, goinng to the hospital and having coverage, having public defence, paying for people who serve the public such as police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, TEACHERS. Paying for public servants who act in the interest of the people they represent (ok, I don't like paying taxes to them...they're usually so rich that they probably shouldn't even get a salary).
It's interesting that I find more Americans think of taxes as stealing so do some Canadians. Know what taxes are like in Scandinavia?? Over half of your salary. Know what they have to pay for service wise? Pretty much nothing. How is their standard of living? Best in the world....hmm....I see a trend here...... |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| crazy_arcade wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| Income taxes, yes. How aren't income taxes stealing? |
Well, I pay taxes. Those taxes provide me with services and infrastructure for our economy. I like to drive my car on roads, having someone pick up my garbage and take it someplace, pick up recycling, goinng to the hospital and having coverage, having public defence, paying for people who serve the public such as police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, TEACHERS. Paying for public servants who act in the interest of the people they represent (ok, I don't like paying taxes to them...they're usually so rich that they probably shouldn't even get a salary).
It's interesting that I find more Americans think of taxes as stealing so do some Canadians. Know what taxes are like in Scandinavia?? Over half of your salary. Know what they have to pay for service wise? Pretty much nothing. How is their standard of living? Best in the world....hmm....I see a trend here...... |
Gosh, I didn't know this was a secret but most of what you listed are not paid for by income taxes. They're paid for by PROPERTY taxes, at least in the U.S. Whole different ball game. Federal income tax is theft. Pure and simple. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: ... |
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Why should anyone have the right to tax my property?
I don't like it.
It's theft pure and simple.
In fact, any taxes that I have to pay are theft.
They should only tax other people. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt."-President George W. Bush |
Actually, the war is 'paid for' through income tax, and this is pretty much what Pres. Bush has been doing for the last 3+ years. Shouldn't you be objecting to that? |
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