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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
I have been using "Torpark" (any relation to "Tor"?) browser for a while. It's great, but quite slow.
Thanks for the link.
| Tor Site wrote: |
| Again, torifying the bittorrent traffic of �Torrent would just add more overhead and reduce your transfer throughput a lot. It also severely taxes the Tor network and is considered poor etiquette. The following image shows how to configure �Torrent to torify tracker traffic. Note the unchecked Use proxy server for peer-to-peer connections. Checking this will severely limit transfer speeds and needlesly tax the Tor network. |
Tor doesn't want to see BitTorrent being used.
Next.... |
Not exactly. I bolded the relevant parts above. I get the feeling that "torifying bittorrent traffic" is what they don't want, whereas "torifying the tracker traffic" seems A-Ok.
A bit more of the full quote:
| Quote: |
For bittorrent it is probably not so helpful to torrify data. Compared to the amount of damage you will do to your throughput and the amount of damage you will do to the Tor network, torryfing data is overkill for the protection you gain. Aside from search index logs and tracker http logs, the attacks needed to determine who is downloading a torrent are somewhat similar to attacks on Tor: the adversary has to be running torrent clients and watching to see who connects to them. This is hard to do on a large scale. You are probably much more at risk for showing up in the webserver logs for popular trackers and index sites.
For this reason, you may want to use tor to communicate with the tracker. For this, just add --tracker-proxy 127.0.0.1:8118: |
This indicates, to me, that torifying your tracker connection provides a reasonable amount of security while still being acceptable usage by the Tor network.
Edit: Additional, hopefully clarifying info, added.
Last edited by Thunndarr on Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| So...if Tor works, is it sufficient to "torify" our browsers (for connecting to torrents sites) and "torify" our tracker connections in our bittorrent programs? Is there anything else to do? |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I will for sure be more careful in the future. Thanks for the heads up. I just assumed no one would care if I download for my use...but I guess they do care. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Found this....a bit over the top in the end, but interesting.
| Bill wrote: |
-- You can't stop pirating of content with software.
Content eventually has to be displayed or played, and you can always
capture it at that point. They'll keep trying, but they'll keep
failing.
-- Governments can effectively stop most pirating, with aggressive
enforcement.
As an extreme example, let's say there's a government that passes a law
that anyone downloading an x-rated movie will be put to death, and that
they force ISPs to cooperate, and have content police bug everyone's
internet connection. I'm guessing that there wouldn't be many x-rated
videos downloaded. I don't see any way around it.
In the US, I think all it would take is forcing ISPs to cooperate. For
example, ISPs could turn off your internet access if there is suspicious
activity, like downloading encrypted data from 100 different peers over
a short period of time, or downloading unencrypted data that's on a list
of copyrighted works from a non-approved site.
-- If you're in a country that honestly tries to protect copyrights,
enjoy free copyrighted movies, music, and software while it lasts,
because it will probably go away.
I believe that governments generally try protect industries that
generate lots of money. This is not always bad -- it protects a lot of
jobs. The music and movie industries generate lots of money.
In the US, I think the music and movie industries will get the
government to force ISPs to cooperate, and they will have to turn off
your internet access if there is suspicious activity. I think they will
also pressure to other governments to do the same thing, and while it
will take years, the pressure will eventually succeed. I think the main
reason it hasn't happened already is that governments are quite slow.
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Edited.
I think there are many now-valid points in this 2 year old post. It has come down to ISPs buckling under pressure.
Last edited by Demophobe on Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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livinginkunsan
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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First off, I believe your biggest problem was downloading from a public tracker. If you get on a good private tracker based in Sweden or such, you will be alot less likely to get in trouble. Also, a program like "peer guardian" should be used to keep your ip address anonymous. That is my 2 cents worth anyway. Anyway, off to watch Lost. That is airing right now in Korea right  |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't put my stock in Peer Guardian.
| Peer Guardian FAQ wrote: |
How safe is PeerGuardian, really?
Well, it is accurate in the sense that it blocks everything on your blocklist. It is impossible to know _all_ the addresses to block so while it will increase your safety to a good extent, it can never be perfect.
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Seems it is only as good as the blocked IP list. A very wide margin for error.
Sure, it's better than nothing, and coupled with your tracker in Atlantis, it may be pretty tight. |
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hanguker
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Location: Korea
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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One would still have to go to court with a lawyer good enough to convince the judge that while you did indeed connect to a certain tracker, you didn't obtain the file it was leading to.
Riggghhhttt......
I don't put my money on loopholes. The truth is, the money and power behind the drive to end piracy extends far and deep. Courts ruling in favor of defendants in these cases are the exception, not the rule. Loopholes will be closed fast by a single ruling, which will set precident for all others to follow.
Best idea is to do it right and not get a notice, warning or any other form of recognition for your activities. |
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hanguker
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Demophobe you stressed me out today...now I'm 
But the thing is...according to that article...these guys record who connects to the tracker not who's is downloading. So if one "torrifies" their connection all should be good.
So...how would one "torrify" exactly  |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: |
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A small rant:
I would imagine the movie you were downloading you would have been MORE than happy to see at the theater. You might even rent or buy the DVD. But we'll never see those movies in Korea. How much exactly are they losing on schlubs like us? |
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Eunoia
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: In a seedy karakoe bar by the banks of the mighty Bosphorus
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| mytime wrote: |
Btw did the guy speak english or Korean?
Maybe they called you because you can speak Korean? |
KT has really good english technical support and customer service. I find it funny you can talk to a tech support person in Korea with a higher level of english fluency than you might get in North America these days. |
Well. Wind me up and set me loose.
The other day (I hadn't paid my KTF phone bill for a couple of months), I got me a phone call from KTF customer service. The woman prattled on for a while (after I had clearly said "Hello?"), until I repeated my greeting and asked (in English and Korean), "I'm sorry, I don't speak Korean. Do you speak English?"
Pause.
Some distant Korean words (probably her-to-supervisor).
Pause.
*Click*
Hrrrmmmmm...
A few minutes later I got a text msg (in Korean), of which I was able to piece together enough words and numbers to conclude that I was being reminded to pay the bill.
Now. This feller just *HAS* to ask.
If KTF has such "really good" service in English, why could they not have found someone - ANYONE - to (a) call me back, or (b) send a msg in English? |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| I doubt anyone gives a flip about downloading old Xbox titles, so I could be the simultaneous winner and loser here. |
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jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
All told, I feel lucky to be in Korea with this happening to me. In Canada or the US, there is no "first offence". They send not a polite phone call asking you to please cease and desist, but a subpoena.
Thanks for the tip, KT. |
Actually, my brother in law got a warning from his ISP (TELUS), after downloading a $10,000 GPS surveying program, that he uses for work, via p2p. TELUS was contacted by the developers and the same was done for him as for you. They denied the company his information and told him that they would cook him next time.
On the subject of TOR, it is essentially a p2p proxy network (well, a close approximation to it anyways). Even proxies can lose their ability to save your anonymity if the company is willing to get the right subpoenas for the right machines. Certain companies are more agressive, like MS, Adobe/Macromedia, SONY, and software companies in industry niches (like engineering, surveying, architecture, and medical software that can cost in the tens of thousands for the end user). I have done my share of pirating... *ARRRRRRRGH*, but there are certain companies that have gotten very smart, making it less worth the risk. In the end, if I think the software is really worth it, especially in the area of security suites, I buy it now. I don't think TOR is really going to slow down these business tyrants.
As well, TOR and FasterFox (a Firefox plugin), have been tagged by servers all over the net for increasing server load. The result is that good sites go under due to increased costs caused by these protocol. On the odd occasion, you may even find yourself IP banned. |
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