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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the article DD. I read it with much interest. I have to say I've long been feeling very cynical about the way Ahmandinejad is being painted as the new bogeyman in the corporate press, and have been pondering over the real reasons why this is happening. I can't help feeling we are being primed for some kind of political conflict or yet another 'pre-emptive' strike. I hope I am quite wrong about the latter. The press has gone quite hysterical over him, and much of it appears wildly exaggerated. This stupid conference is playing right into the media's hands. If he'd invited everyone it would have been an interesting exercise, but of course he's trying to push a particular agenda. Most unfortunate for his country.
I'll post the article on another relevant thread.
As for the holocaust and Morocco: I've had quite a few very interesting discussions with Moroccans about the subject. In every case they were very proud of their relationship with Israel (apparantly they are the only muslim country who allow their citizens to remain Morrocan even after they've taken out Israeli citizenship) and of how the took in Jewish refugees during the 40s. It seems to be a point of national pride. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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From the right-wing L.A. Times.
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Why they deny the Holocaust
On top of nearly constant anti-Semitic propaganda, much of the Muslim world hasn't even heard of it.
ONE DAY IN 1994, when I was living in Ede, a small town in Holland, I got a visit from my half-sister. She and I were both immigrants from Somalia and had both applied for asylum in Holland. I was granted it; she was denied. The fact that I got asylum gave me the opportunity to study. My half-sister couldn't.
In order for me to be admitted to the university I wanted to attend, I needed to pass three courses: a language course, a civics course and a history course. It was in the preparatory history course that I, for the first time, heard of the Holocaust. I was 24 years old at that time, and my half-sister was 21.
In those days, the daily news was filled with the Rwandan genocide and ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. On the day that my half-sister visited me, my head was reeling from what happened to 6 million Jews in Germany, Holland, France and Eastern Europe.
I learned that innocent men, women and children were separated from each other. Stars pinned to their shoulders, transported by train to camps, they were gassed for no other reason than for being Jewish.
I saw pictures of masses of skeletons, even of kids. I heard horrifying accounts of some of the people who had survived the terror of Auschwitz and Sobibor. I told my half-sister all this and showed her the pictures in my history book. What she said was as awful as the information in my book.
With great conviction, my half-sister cried: "It's a lie! Jews have a way of blinding people. They were not killed, gassed or massacred. But I pray to Allah that one day all the Jews in the world will be destroyed."
She was not saying anything new. As a child growing up in Saudi Arabia, I remember my teachers, my mom and our neighbors telling us practically on a daily basis that Jews are evil, the sworn enemies of Muslims, and that their only goal was to destroy Islam. We were never informed about the Holocaust.
Later, as a teenager in Kenya, when Saudi and other Persian Gulf philanthropy reached us, I remember that the building of mosques and donations to hospitals and the poor went hand in hand with the cursing of Jews. Jews were said to be responsible for the deaths of babies and for epidemics such as AIDS, and they were believed to be the cause of wars. They were greedy and would do absolutely anything to kill us Muslims. If we ever wanted to know peace and stability, and if we didn't want to be wiped out, we would have to destroy the Jews. For those of us who were not in a position to take up arms against them, it was enough for us to cup our hands, raise our eyes heavenward and pray to Allah to destroy them.
Western leaders today who say they are shocked by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's conference this week denying the Holocaust need to wake up to that reality. For the majority of Muslims in the world, the Holocaust is not a major historical event that they deny. We simply do not know it ever happened because we were never informed of it.
The total number of Jews in the world today is estimated to be about 15 million, certainly no more than 20 million. On the other hand, the world's Muslim population is estimated to be between 1.2 billion and 1.5 billion. And not only is this population rapidly growing, it is also very young.
What's striking about Ahmadinejad's conference is the (silent) acquiescence of mainstream Muslims. I cannot help but wonder: Why is there no counter-conference in Riyadh, Cairo, Lahore, Khartoum or Jakarta condemning Ahmadinejad? Why are the 57 members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference silent on this?
Could the answer be as simple as it is horrifying: For generations, the leaders of these so-called Muslim countries have been spoon-feeding their populations a constant diet of propaganda similar to the one that generations of Germans (and other Europeans) were fed � that Jews are vermin and should be dealt with as such? In Europe, the logical conclusion was the Holocaust. If Ahmadinejad has his way, he shall not want for compliant Muslims ready to act on his wish.
The world needs to be informed again and again about the Holocaust � not only in the interest of the Jews who survived and their offspring but in the interest of humanity. |
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ali16dec16,0,2351518.story?coll=la-home-commentary
An interesting article, especially contrasted with the Left-wing counterpunch. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Holocaust "Denier": 'No Need To Show Remorse'
POSTED: 0153 GMT (0953 HKT), December 21, 2006
LONDON, England (AP) -- British writer David Irving returned to England the day after he was released early from an Austrian prison -- vowing to repeat views denying the Holocaust that led to his conviction.
Irving said Thursday he felt "no need any longer to show remorse" for his views on the Holocaust, for which he was sentenced to three years in prison. Vienna's highest court granted Irving's appeal and converted two-thirds of his sentence into probation on Wednesday.
Upon arriving at London's Heathrow airport, he also called for a boycott of all Austrian and German historians until laws which make Holocaust denial illegal in those countries are overturned.
Willfried Kovarnik, head of Vienna's immigration police, said Irving had been indefinitely banned from Austria and that he had spent Wednesday night in an Austrian detention center. Irving said he intended to appeal that decision.
In February, Irving was convicted under a 1992 law that applies to anyone in Austria who denies, plays down, approves or tries to excuse the Nazi genocide or other Nazi crimes against humanity. The law calls for a prison term of up to 10 years.
During his one-day trial earlier this year, Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of denying the Holocaust.
Both the defense and the prosecution appealed the sentence. In September, Austria's Supreme Court upheld Irving's conviction.
He said he spent his time in prison writing his memoirs.
During his imprisonment, he said that he and his seriously ill wife, Bente Hogh, lost their Central London home. He said he would return to temporary accommodation in Central London and begin to rebuild his life.
He said he had been targeted by a "secret society of judges" in Britain 
"They haven't succeeded," he said. "My enemies are deeply shocked that I'm out. They thought I would die in prison."
Irving had been in custody since his November 2005 arrest on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 for which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews.
He has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps like Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/21/uk.irving.ap/index.html |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Holocaust" numbers -
2000 days X 24 hours X 60 minutes X 60 seconds
That is 172,800,000 seconds
Divided by 6,000,000
One Jew, identified, detained, "arrested", transported, killed, and body disposed of every 30 seconds
Please ck the math - I think it is correct
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If you count ONLY death camps..ONLY death camps...the soul purpose of which was to kill, there are 8. But that doesn't include other HUGE concentration camps where killing was done almost as systemically (Dachau, Mauthausen, and Buchewald)
I count 49 camps:
Do you REALLY think it's impossible to kill 1 person every 30 seconds? You're daft. At Aushwitz, they could kill 750*4 people every 30 minutes (or less) if they wanted to.
| Quote: |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps |
I used to just think igtg was innocent but wrong. Now I think he's downright stupid. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:04 am Post subject: |
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All WW2 casualties aside, whether 6 poor innocent people died or 6 million, that's hardly the bottom line issue underlying what has fundamentally transpired.
What is most disturbing is how the Holocaust was pursued, & gullible "pseudo-Aryan" Nazis duped, so that the modern state of Israel could then more easily be brought into existence
Merry-Christmas !!! |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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All WW2 casualties aside, whether 6 poor innocent people died or 6 million, that's hardly the bottom line issue underlying what has fundamentally transpired.
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buuuuullllshiiiiiiit! So you're saying genocide is NOT the issue? The HATRED that hitler had for the jewish race was merely a pretext for a Jewish homeland.
That in FACT Hitler should be thanked by my parent's best friends (who live in Canada) for gassing their parents. "Way to go hitler! Thanks for killing my parents. You are the BEST Jew ever".
And if that is REALLY REALLY what you are gunning for, why did zionists need 20million rushians to die?
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What is most disturbing is how the Holocaust was pursued, & gullible "pseudo-Aryan" Nazis duped, so that the modern state of Israel could then more easily be brought into existence |
Everynight I go to bed and cry a single tear for Himmler.
You need to get more balance in your life. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I was just perusing this Iranian's blog. He clearly scoffs at the idea that there was no holocaust. http://samiramohyeddin.blogspot.com/
WARNING: The photos he's used to make his (sarcastic) point are very nasty (piles of corpses). So that those who don't want to view them don't have to see them...I've located them very far down the page. That way those who don't mind looking can scroll down, and those who do can click away now.
Warning: Some may find the following photos disturbing!!
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From the entry made December 12, 2006:
Holocaust Conference Wrap-Up
this is not a mass grave...do not get the wrong idea. this is just a bunch of crazy rowdy jewish kids, think Hillel of the 1940's, they were out late one night drinking and got a bit carried away when they left the local fraternity house and fell into a big ditch.=============
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these people are actually sleeping; they were not slaughtered at buchen...they were all sleeping when it got really hot inside so they decided to take off their clothes and go sleep on the big cart outside of their plush quarters where they willingly and happily lived and worked and sang songs of joy and jubilation.
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ARBEIT MACHT FREI
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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If nothing else, at least Ahmadinejad agitated the crazies...
| CNN wrote: |
SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Nobel laureate and Holocaust scholar Elie Wiesel was dragged from an elevator and roughed up during a peace conference at a San Francisco hotel last week, police said Friday. The author was not injured.
The assailant approached Wiesel in an elevator February 1 at the Argent Hotel and requested an interview, police Sgt. Neville Gittens said.
When Wiesel consented to talk in the hotel's lobby, the man insisted it be done in a hotel room and dragged the 78-year-old off the elevator on the sixth floor, Gittens said.
The assailant fled after Wiesel began to scream, and Wiesel went to the lobby and called police.
Gittens said police are investigating the incident as a crime. He said investigators were aware of a posting at an anti-Semitic Web site in which a man claimed responsibility for the attack, but declined to comment further.
Wiesel couldn't be immediately reached for comment at Boston University, where he teaches, or through his institute in New York.
Wiesel, who survived the Nazi death camps at Auschwitz and Buchenwald during World War II, has worked for human rights in many parts of the world and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. |
CNN Report |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Can we Please forget about Ahmadinejad and his Holocaust deniers...I want to focus on hating George Bush |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
| Can we Please forget about Ahmadinejad and his Holocaust deniers...I want to focus on hating George Bush |
Can't we hate them both? |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Can't we hate them both?
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That is an EXCELLENT question...Hate resources are limited so we may have to explore our feelings a little closer....Or we could just claim that the Iranian president is bad and then throw in a big BUT about how Bush is the real Devil... |
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