Korean Job Discussion Forums

zoltan · Joined: 19 Aug 2003

Derrek:

Interesting that your friend was from Ireland - maybe she should stay a bit longer, or move around the country. I'm from Ireland too and I've been looking for 8 weeks and have finally found a kindy job. The director spent 4 years in the UK and really understands that your accent (so long as you speak clearly) is a minor issue.

Like Gary Player says: the harder I practise, the luckier I get.
Tell her to try a bit more. Slainte!

Zoltan

Arthur Fonzerelli · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Suwon

billbile · Joined: 10 Apr 2003

So to summarise... as I kindly inform the Koreans on my watch, Koreans are becoming more internationalised and open-minded and less backward and "country style", to use their expression, and the trend is that they are exposing themselves more widely to the language, and removing dependence on speech patterns from one area, whichever area that might be. As we all know, in English there is no such thing as inferior or inferior accent; it implies snobbism, which westerners hate, however natural snobbism might be in Korea. To get on with foreigners, as most Koreans accept, they have to learn to understand how they think, and think like them, after all.

As I stress to my students, in English (being an international language, not restricted to one area) listening is more important than accent. I advise them to use their time listening to things like CNN (where international English is used, since you will find an Indian and a Canadian and an Australian having a discussion, for example) where they keep any localised idioms to a minimum.

Things like movies or TV programmes from a certain area need to be avoided for this reason, there are a lot of localised idioms (which you will only need to understand if you happen to be there and there is no predicting where a student will end up) unless your English is at a very high level of competence.

The definition of good English to a native speaker is not being able to ape perfectly people from area or region x or y. That is because such an English speaker is usually unable to comprehend anyone outside of x or y, and therefore can communicate only with a minority of the world's English speakers.

The definition of good English is being able to listen to something like CNN or BBC or DW and comprehend everything that has been said. And being able to be understood by a maximum number of English speakers. A very good English-speaking person will pick up the message on a news programme for example while rarely being aware which country or area the speaker is from, because this is exactly what native speakers do. And again, Koreans themselves will admit they need to be like native speakers as much as possible.

To gain this kind of broad listening flexibility, learners need to expose themselves widely to many varieties of English. It's not rocket science.

Here's a question to ask your students. If the "American" accent is supreme, why did the American channel CNN feel the need to become more like the BBC in order to compete? Food for thought.

Er, and by the way, I'm a very patriotic Earthling.

endofthewor1d · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: the end of the wor1d.

yeah, i'm astounded by the current job market. what's the story? two years ago, i wasn't even looking for a job in korea, and i was inundated with offers. now, i'm actively seeking penance... er, i mean employment, over there, and i'm hardly getting any response at all. i thought it was going to be easy street getting on this time. i mean, what with north korea's nukes always on the news, i thought that some of the more timid foreigners might not want to come over. also, i thought i was what every korean director was looking for, young, white, american, two years experience, etc...
and yet i get told by a recruiter that my resume is too short and unprofessional. well... yeah, it is. that's fair enough. but i did send a nice picture, and i thought that's what really counted in korea. these recruiters are supposed to be bloodthirsty animals, ready to promise me the world. suddenly, i'm not even worth lying to.

Arthur Fonzerelli · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Suwon

I was told by a recruiter that the World Cup games last year resulted in some of those visitors coming back to Korea and getting teaching jobs here...

Maybe that's why the market seems tighter lately...

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

BTM · Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Back in the saddle.

billbile · Joined: 10 Apr 2003

"The move...had everything to do with advertising revenue."

which is thus my point, exactly.

In order to be more appealing internationally, in order to make more money (something which most Koreans would probably not be averse to) Koreans would be well served to be more open minded in their approach, and not fixated on one area.

The point illustrates that more generally (not relating only to language) that "American" culture (including language) is not automatically supreme; in fact in a lot of cases there is no supremacy, and a mixed approach is a good one. Particularly with English.

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

Your point? Uhhh... whatever ... paint it any way you like.

By the way. I'm sorry you feel the need to cheapen the abilities of CNN International's lead anchor by suggesting that the reason he was chosen was because of his speech -- hardly. I'm sure personality, talent, and character played a big part.

As for langauage, in the last 200 years or so, the power of British English has slowly ebbed away. It is becoming more like a novelty for movies such as, "The Lord of the Rings."

Learning British English is not going to help Koreans broaden their horizons more than learning an American or Canadian style of speech. I suppose if Britain were what it was 200 years ago, it would be different.

When given a choice, the common man is better served choosing the most popular.

Arthur Fonzerelli · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Suwon

Homer · Guest

Maybe the schools are just raising the bar a little in order to filter out less qualified candidates.
This is much the same thing that happened in Japan a few years ago. Its normal evolution for the job market. Sooner or later, requirements will get higher in Korea.

Medic · Joined: 11 Mar 2003

Koreans are also starting to paye attention to content as opposed to just plain accents. They are wanting a little more from their teachers than just the ability to pronounce things correctly.

I have seen people with British accents struggle initially, but because their background was very proffesional, and in some cases TESOL they slowly gained a respect from their students that others relying totaly on their accents were never able to get.

billbile · Joined: 10 Apr 2003

quote:
"Your point? Uhhh... whatever ... paint it any way you like.
By the way. I'm sorry you feel the need to cheapen the abilities of CNN International's lead anchor by suggesting that the reason he was chosen was because of his speech -- hardly. I'm sure personality, talent, and character played a big part.
As for langauage, in the last 200 years or so, the power of British English has slowly ebbed away. It is becoming more like a novelty for movies such as, "The Lord of the Rings."
Learning British English is not going to help Koreans broaden their horizons more than learning an American or Canadian style of speech. I suppose if Britain were what it was 200 years ago, it would be different.
When given a choice, the common man is better served choosing the most popular."

You've missed my point entirely. I am not suggesting people are chosen by TV companies because of their speech. In fact, my point is entirely the same as yours, that how one speaks English is insignificant, other things are more important. This is only obvious, taking into account a lot of the English speaking world news channels who don't hold out any one "accent" as standard.

And as you say it ebbs and it flows. Perhaps Indian or Japanese English will become more important/influential in the future.

I'm criticising the fact that Koreans (or whoever else) might ape and listen to people from one particular area only, feeling they must IGNORE ENTIRELY all others in order to improve English.

This is WRONG and an inefficient use of study time. It is not important to have this or that accent down to pat when you are speaking English. English speakers simply do not care that you have an English accent exactly like their own. And this is at any rate impossible, since they all have different accents. Some kind of average of them is fine. Even a Korean accent is fine; so long as grammar and the basic consonants are ironed out.

It is better, once your speaking reaches a certain level of competence (so that you can be understood by any speaker of English chosen randomly from around the world) it is more effective to spend time listening to different accents. This would be a more efficient use of study time.

As you know, the two parts of communication are SPEAKING and LISTENING. Listening is every bit as important as speaking. And listening seems to be a very big weakness that Koreans have - ask any English speaker from perhaps outside of the North America and they will confirm this. It is most likely - correct me if I am wrong - the fact that many Koreans feel they ought to ignore speakers from outside America that they have such poor listening abilities. More exposure to more accents will improve this. If they listen more widely they will improve their listening flexibility, and they will be able to understand (that is, communicate with)more English speakers. By definition, their English will be much better.

It is quite absurd to have a a Korean (or a non-native English speaker) who sounds exactly American (or exactly like a native speaker from country x) who cannot understand a person from, say England (or country y where English is widely used), and acts as though it is the English person with bad English. In fact, it is almost offensive. Not only that, but their ability to communicate is badly compromised and rather limited as a result of this kind of misguided approach to language learning.

And I'm certainly not alone in this analysis, I've read it in the Korea Herald language learning supplements too.

buddy bradley · Joined: 24 Aug 2003 Location: The Beyond

If I was Korean, I would want to learn American English. When I was learning Mandarin in Taiwan, I demanded that the speaker use Standard Mandarin (Beijing-style) because it is the standard. I hate Taiwanese pronunciation; it's sloppy-like.

American English is Standard English. I mean, jeepers, who the hell wants to sound like an Australian?!