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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
The US never did do anything for Afghanistan, except train up terrorists and fund them. If the US was in there doing good, or actually trying to do good, with an intelligently thought out plan, then I would applaud them. But the US and British are not there benefit of the Afghani people. Let's stop pretending. |
Suggestion? The US trained fighters to fight the Soviet invasion. Question to, what should they have done? Start world war 3? Again, why not condemn the real culprits? The backwards culture of the place, and the disgusting values championed by the Koran. Thats FAR more guilty than the US. |
Wait, so the US would be responsible for starting world war 3 if they had not trained Afghanistani extremists to fight the Soviets?
a) Where does US responsibility come in here?
b) Do you really think that a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, without US involvement, would have led to a serious conflict?
I do not support war. This was something that the US should have stayed the *beep* out of, and that's pretty popular sentiment, even with right wingers.
The exceptions are the same people who still think Vietnam just needed a few thousand more dead teenagers. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
You ready to defend North Korea, too, pinko? |
I'd buy a big gun if somebody kept talking about pointing fifty of them at me.
How about you? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
The US never did do anything for Afghanistan, except train up terrorists and fund them. If the US was in there doing good, or actually trying to do good, with an intelligently thought out plan, then I would applaud them. But the US and British are not there benefit of the Afghani people. Let's stop pretending. |
Suggestion? The US trained fighters to fight the Soviet invasion. Question to, what should they have done? Start world war 3? Again, why not condemn the real culprits? The backwards culture of the place, and the disgusting values championed by the Koran. Thats FAR more guilty than the US. |
Wait, so the US would be responsible for starting world war 3 if they had not trained Afghanistani extremists to fight the Soviets?
a) Where does US responsibility come in here?
b) Do you really think that a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, without US involvement, would have led to a serious conflict?
I do not support war. This was something that the US should have stayed the *beep* out of, and that's pretty popular sentiment, even with right wingers.
The exceptions are the same people who still think Vietnam just needed a few thousand more dead teenagers. |
Looks like pinkos have trouble with reading. Read it again, I wont explain it. Perhaps you should rethink coming over as you dont have a grasp on the language.
a) The US did what they should have done. Fought a proxy war without direct involvement. Doing nothing would have been a mistake. History has shown that the decision to train fighters was the right one. Im sure you pinkos still cry about losing the cold war.
b) Ill let you do the theoretical exercises. Im sure you have wet dreams about a Red Afghanistan every night. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
You ready to defend North Korea, too, pinko? |
I'd buy a big gun if somebody kept talking about pointing fifty of them at me.
How about you? |
I'd shoot you in the head. Something that the US should have already done. |
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kimchi story
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
You ready to defend North Korea, too, pinko? |
I'd buy a big gun if somebody kept talking about pointing fifty of them at me.
How about you? |
I'd shoot you in the head. Something that the US should have already done. |
Freaking claaaaasssic.
Last edited by kimchi story on Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| History has shown that the decision to train fighters was the right one. |
That's right! The CIA was absolutely right to train bin Laden and nurture revolutionary Islamism!
I honestly used to think jinju was just pretending to be an idiot. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| History has shown that the decision to train fighters was the right one. |
That's right! The CIA was absolutely right to train bin Laden and nurture revolutionary Islamism!
I honestly used to think jinju was just pretending to be an idiot. |
Bullshit. Bin laden would have become Bin Laden anyway. His decision to become what he has came as a result of totally unrelated events. If he didnt get the training, guess what, he would still have become the terrorist he is now. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
1. Why do people by the thousands risk their lives to escape Cuba (the opposite is true with the US, people try to enter it)
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Too much Miami Vice?
| jinju wrote: |
2. Why does Castro need to arrest or kill them?[/qoute]
So Americans don't find out how great Cuba is and start coming over in their thousands. |
| jinju wrote: |
| The US puts dissidents in prisons and camps? |
Yes, in Cuba  |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
1. Why do people by the thousands risk their lives to escape Cuba (the opposite is true with the US, people try to enter it)
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Too much Miami Vice?
| jinju wrote: |
2. Why does Castro need to arrest or kill them?[/qoute]
So Americans don't find out how great Cuba is and start coming over in their thousands. |
| jinju wrote: |
| The US puts dissidents in prisons and camps? |
Yes, in Cuba |
The stupidity of the left never ceass to amaze me. Are you really comparing the two? Do you really not see a difference between living in the US and living in Cuba as far as your civil and human rights go? Are people in the US barred from travel outisde the country? Are they imprisoned for leaving i or trying to? Do Americans often escape to canada via raft across Lake Ontario? How many Americans have been imprisoned for speaking out against Bush? Why dont you pinkos get some perspective?
Id love to see you idiots tell Cubans in miami that Cuba is a great country. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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(Whistles innocently)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_defectors_in_the_Korean_War
That's just for starters.
Americans can't go to Cuba, North Korea and so on because the US government doesn't let them, not the other way around.
And yes, people are harassed and detained because of histories of travel to these countries.
Bush doesn't need to imprison dissidents because America has a more effective system of propaganda than these countries. There is no need to imprison these people because self-censoring and public perception, as shaped by corporate and state propaganda, fill the gap nicely.
Anything else? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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If only Castro had it so good...21 defectors over 5 decades.......
Maybe Ill whistle a bit too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_exile
The majority of the more than 1 million Cuban exiles living in the United States live in and around the city of Miami.
Hmmmmmmm
So The US with about 260 million people has 21 defections, Cuba with what, 5 million maybe has over a million defectors?
Ask yourself why, if you can. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I answered your original question. That's all I cared to do.
I am not a supporter of Cuban policy, nor a supporter of US policy.
I simply hate freedom, but I am not a pinko, nor a camel jockey, as it were. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link kimchi - interesting. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Who is your beef with? The US for not being able to root out sick, backwards traditions or the Muslims for having those sick, backwards traditions? Let me guess.... |
No. The Bush and Blair administrations pretending they were going in to Afghanistan to make things better for women. For using it as a selling point to the US and UK public (I know people who really bought it). When they knew damn well they wouldn't change a thing. When any serious observer knew damn well it would likely make things much worse for women living there.
For pretending they really cared. |
because your favorie gang the taliban should have stayed, eh?
And what the hell is this about caring? Caring is for the carebears not politicians. Bush did what he should have done. Looks like some of the taliban got away and now you socialize with them down at the bar by the pool table. |
In 1987, Gorbachev was trying to reform the Soviet Union. One of the things he wanted to do was extricate the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. He asked Reagan (or Reagan's puppet masters) to help him with this. He hoped the US could help negotiate a solution, to prevent a serious power vacuum in Afghanistan. The Soviets were shocked when the Reaganites frankly refused. The Soviets warned the Reagan administration that Afghanistan would almost certainly be taken over by a radical Islamic movement. The neocons in the Reagan government did not give a toss. The Soviets turned out to be quite right, unfortunately. The Taliban eventually took over. The US at first welcomed the Taliban because they brought stability, and they supported them for years, even though they were practising the most awful oppression of Afghani women. The US government didn't give a toss about the appalling treatment of women under the Taliban. Not until they needed to rally up domestic support for their little war. Suddenly, the neocons were desperately concerned about the plight of women, and enough of the populace bought it. I met quite a few people who supported the invasion....because it was going to liberate women! Ha!
If jinju spent a little less time bashing his bishop while reading my posts, and put a little bit more effort into comprehending the actual meaning of my words, he might have already noticed that I detested the Taliban.
| jinju wrote: |
| *beep*. Bin laden would have become Bin Laden anyway. His decision to become what he has came as a result of totally unrelated events. If he didnt get the training, guess what, he would still have become the terrorist he is now. |
jinju has no idea whether this would have come about or not. A lot of analysts believe the opposite, particularly with regard to Al Quaeda.
Going back to the US's refusal to help negotiate a political solution in 1987: Because the Soviets just packed up and left, without anything being resolved, the ragtag army of Islamists truly believed that they had defeated a superpower. They didn't understand Gorbachev's concern about the internal state of the Soviet Union. They thought with the help of their god that they'd defeated the Soviets all on their little own. This emboldened them, and made them feel they could take on anything. Indeed, it seriously encouraged them. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Big_Bird"][]
Yes but how are those ideals going to take hold? How would you implement a plan to get them taking hold? How can a foreign occupying power force these ideals to take hold? Can't you see that the occupied population is going to resist these ideals partly because a foreign power is imposing/advocating them?
[
Didn't I just say something like that back on page one? Anyway that's a side issue. The U.S. went into Afghanistan to get the Taliban for supporting AQ, not for women's rights. To try and make it ALL about women's rights is misleading and illogical. You have to include all the factors (including the main one) otherwise it is not a discussion worth having. |
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