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Are Samurai Originally Korean
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True Samurai



Joined: 07 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Are Samurai Originally Korean Reply with quote

Good day. On another thread in which I ask about age being a factor in getting hired in Korea, Smee, noticing my nome de forum remarked:
Quote:
Some would tell you that "samurai" comes from Korean anyway.

To which I replied:
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What do you mean? Please, do tell. Were there a Korean sort of samurai? Smile

And kimchi story responded:
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Japan was invented by Korea. Of course there was a Korean samurai, they invented Samurai. Yimini

and SuperFly:
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Dunno bout the Samurai, but the guys who made the swords were all Koreans, they were the inventors of the technology. Then the Japanese invaded and "took them all back to Japan" as the story goes...and with them went the "technology" to make these fine Samurai swords... this was the story as I first heard it in May of 1996


Now taking SuperFly's comment first, and excuse me if this sounds cynical, but I've been cynical since I learned the truth about Milli Vanilli, and just don't believe anything anymore - Isn't "the guys who made the swords were all Koreans, they were the inventors of the technology. Then the Japanese invaded and "took them all back to Japan" - exactly what the Koreans would say? Confused

I know they have suffered awfully at the hands of the Japanese, the Chinese and the Americans, but Japan has been renowned for 1200 years for its swords and swordcraft, and I, at least, have never heard that the Koreans even made supercool swords - though I suppose they must have in olden times.

And it seems a bit far fetched that the Japanese managed to kidnap all of the Korean swordsmiths. The Japanese are pretty thorough in everything they do, but surely someone would have been left to carry on, some half-grown son of a Korean swordsmith, or his ne'er-do-well drunken brother Il-song, say, who sobered up after the war and cleaned up as the only skilled swordmaker left on the peninsula. Don't you think?

And kimchi story talks about yimini. Is that what Korean samurai are called? Well, yumpin' yimini! Smile

So I thougfht I'd move this whole discussion over here to the off-topic section. I can well believe Korea would have some elite fighting force of its own, and that they followed some Spartan Chan sort of Buddhism, but do they pre-date the Japanese version. Were they nearly as cool?

I really would like to know. I must admit I picked my nome de forum as an affront to Korean culture as I'm very dyed-in-the-wool Japanese in my outlook, the joke will be on me if it turns out there really were Korean samurai that make the Japanese ones look like wooses. My choice of name may be both ironic and prophetic. Confused
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Smee



Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, others are way more expert at this . . . but somebody told me that "samurai" comes from 싸움, (ssa-um), a noun meaning "fight." That's all I know about it.
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think so. The whole bushido thing started up well past the time that Koreans started focusing on poetry.

As for steeling metalworkers (couldn't resist that pun) . . . It's possible, although the history I know deals with stealing potters during the Hideoyoshi invasions.
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kimchi story



Joined: 23 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whew! Well, I'm glad I'm preaching to the converted. My original post was satirical, to set the record straight. But then again, as was proven by Big Bird, my instincts are well educated but still not always to be trusted.

And OMG brother, the truth about Milli Vanilli was hard to take Wink Girl, you know it's true...


Last edited by kimchi story on Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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kimchi_pizza



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samurai actually comes fromt the Japanese word meaning "to serve". Can't think of the exact words...

Also, Korean swords take more after the Chinese style as well as their bows. Japanese swords and bows are distinctly Japanese.

If you're interested Bushido I recommend reading Nitobe Inazo's book. Very interesting.
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superacidjax



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_beaver wrote:
Don't think so. The whole bushido thing started up well past the time that Koreans started focusing on poetry.

As for steeling metalworkers (couldn't resist that pun) . . . It's possible, although the history I know deals with stealing potters during the Hideoyoshi invasions.


Did the Japanese steal poets? I think it's a bit ironic that the North Koreans stole Japanese people to help them. I wonder if that's revenge for all of the sword people stolen back in the day..
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ancient Korea used to have something vaguely similar to the samurai (young aristocrats trained in the arts, including martial arts):

Hwarang

They had disappeared by the time of the Chosun dynasty.
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SuperFly



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And when I was told the kidnapping story, we were all quite high on soju and boilermakers. But it was a good story, and I had a good time listening to it...and my hosts were quite generous with the girls at the room salon. I even had first picks!
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Dan The Chainsawman



Joined: 05 May 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bullshito the art of Japanese trade negotiation. Damn effective.
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jazblanc77



Joined: 22 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who practices kumdo, I have to tell you that this is an issue of hot contention. I''l give you a condensed history.

Korea did traditionally use swords in combat, but the traditional martial art was practiced with a double edged sword. Eventually the Japanese develeoped the katana sword which is reputed to be the strongest and most durable sword ever made. Both Korea and China adopted this sword and developed their own styles. While Koreans are believed to have emulated many forms from the Japanese, they also developed Hwa Rang which influenced the development of the warrior class in Japan, the Samurai. However, with the advent of confucianism in the Goryo and Joseon Dynasties, many martial arts, including fencing, archery, and hand-to-hand combat styles began to die out. At that time, it was deemed that those who practiced marital arts were of lower status and only professional military practitioners carried on some of the traditions (many styles and techniques died with their practitioners without being passed on). The demise of Korean martial arts was further aided when the Japanese occupational forces banned their practice by ordinary citizens. The only Korean styles to have survived are the Bonguk Geombeop and the Chosun Se Bup, but all of the other 10 bon/kata (sword forms), are still virtually iden