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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="BJWD"]
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| Now, the existence of a melting arctic does not necessarily validate the global warming thesis. |
You think it shows temperatures are getting colder?
I think NASA doctored these images.
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| The existence of sin does not legitimize the story of the Bible in the same way that the melting of the arctic does not legitimize the global warming thesis. |
Where is this global warming thesis, and who wrote it?Is there just one?The word you're looking for is "theory."
I have a new point: "the fact that BJWD does not have a grasp of his own language suggests he lacks intelligence, which negates his argument". |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Now, what does that tell us other than Rush is a worse debater than Al Gore?
Does it
1) Tell us that all climate-dissenters are equal to Rush?
2) Tell us that the global warming thesis is infallible?
3) Tell us that Vishnu is going to hit Rush on the head with a broken-backed elephant?
Nothing. It tells us nothing of substance.
Just read the 10 part series. Very interesting stuff. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Julius"]
| BJWD wrote: |
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| Now, the existence of a melting arctic does not necessarily validate the global warming thesis. |
You think it shows temperatures are getting colder?
21)
I think NASA doctored these images.
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| The existence of sin does not legitimize the story of the Bible in the same way that the melting of the arctic does not legitimize the global warming thesis. |
Where is this global warming thesis, and who wrote it?Is there just one?The word you're looking for is "theory."
3)I have a new point: "the fact that BJWD does not have a grasp of his own language suggests he lacks intelligence, which negates his argument". |
1) I didn't say anything about temperature. I did say that there could be other explanations than the global warming theory. The one that states that "green house grasses" are responsible. You are imposing onto me your own ideas as to what critics of the GW idea believe. You might do well to read about it rather an assume.
2) Yes, theory. My mistake.
3) It isn't my argument in as much as the scientists who disagree aren't working for me. What I have done is take care and time to read as much as I could about this whole thing and come to my own conclusions.
Why do you keep reverting to attacking me? Why don't you read the 10 articles and make up your own mind. You really do sound religious in your unwillingness to open up to dissenting evidence. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Rush was an elephant in his previous life, explaining his being a staunch Republican now ... |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| The theory that the world is getting warmer and man is making a significant contribution to it is one of those theories (like evolution) that is interdisciplinary. Climatologists, oceanographers, chemists, geologists, astronomers, etc. From each we can draw a line of evidence. If the lines of evidence all point to rising temperatures and an increase in greenhouse gases, the safe bet is probably on global warming. You know? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Have you spent any time going over the dissenting evidence? If you are interested in this idea, you owe it to yourself to approach it with an open mind and look at opposing views.
Check out the series I posted. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| I think I'll put in a plug for Venus here. We should be sending solar flyers to Venus to check out in more detail how CO2 works on an atmosphere. We can whip one up for a few hundred million, send it there and have it fly for pretty much as long as we need because the slow rotation (240 days or so for the planet to rotate just once) guarantees permanent solar energy. The ESA made Venus Express pretty quick and we can send in more probes too. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: ... |
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| I didn't say anything about temperature. |
Then what is this thread about? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
And the evidence that the sun and increased volcanic activity are the dominant sources of any climate change? What about the warming period during European medieval times?
The United Nations is a political body and those appointed to the panel were done so by the same process that all appointments are done in the United Nations. The UN climate paper is a political document.
This is starting to resemble academia. Those who dissent are made quiet in an ever harder push leftward. I think we have a classic market "run" forming. Y2K all over again.
Humans just can't resist a narrative that gives them meaning. |
This hits the nail squarely on the head. The UN fancies itself as the nucleus of a global government. The Global Warming cult is their latest and greatest attempt to wrest control of the world's economy.
All governments tend to want to expand their power/influence (as do businesses).
Any of you who still believe that the science on anthropogenic global warming is "settled" in the face of incredibly divergent scientific debate on the issue are truly frightening.
The new flat earth society has formed. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The theory that the world is getting warmer and man is making a significant contribution to it is one of those theories (like evolution) that is interdisciplinary. Climatologists, oceanographers, chemists, geologists, astronomers, etc. |
add to that list, actors, singers, poets, movie disectors, script writers, journalists, tlak show hosts, and a hundred other thoughtful and sensitive voices who have been raised to think the epitome of all evil is the "businessman". |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Have you spent any time going over the dissenting evidence? If you are interested in this idea, you owe it to yourself to approach it with an open mind and look at opposing views. |
I agree, and I read your sources. It may well be the case that the CO2 hypothesis of anthropogenic climate change is incomplete or incorrect. However, given the current evidence for the process, like mindmetoo said, the issue is that of making a safe bet. If the hypothesis is correct, as the majority of scientists accept, then the implications are grave and we need to be doing all we can to address the issue. If, on the other hand, the hypothesis is incorrect then the consequences of action are some wasted resources but also reduction of pollution and development of potentially useful environmental technologies. (Oh yeah, and maybe the UN will steal sundubuman's freedom).
In the end we have to make a bet about what the best course of action will be for ourselves and our children, and while it would be foolish to become dogmatic about either position, the consequences of each position being wrong are not equal. We need to keep that in mind when deciding where we stand politically on this issue. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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SEems this fella only provides one REAL hypothesis:
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The evidence from astrophysicists and cosmologists in laboratories around the world, on the other hand, could well be significant. In his study of meteorites, published in the prestigious journal, Physical Review Letters, Dr. Shaviv found that the meteorites that Earth collected during its passage through the arms of the Milky Way sustained up to 10% more cosmic ray damage than others. That kind of cosmic ray variation, Dr. Shaviv believes, could alter global temperatures by as much as 15% --sufficient to turn the ice ages on or off and evidence of the extent to which cosmic forces influence Earth's climate.
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If y'ask me, this "evidence" seems incredibly specious; certainly nothing to build a whole THEORY upong.
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| add to that list, actors, singers, poets, movie disectors, script writers, journalists, tlak show hosts, and a hundred other thoughtful and sensitive voices |
...all pitted against one enemy: People who are too skeptical to let scientific or common sense rule their roost.
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| ... epitome of all evil is the "businessman". |
Most of these people (scientists included) believe that the businessman plays the essential role of financing the work that needs to be done to curb global warming.
...and besides, the epitome of all evil is the SUV driver...I thought you knew that. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The theory that the world is getting warmer and man is making a significant contribution to it is one of those theories (like evolution) that is interdisciplinary. Climatologists, oceanographers, chemists, geologists, astronomers, etc. |
add to that list, actors, singers, poets, movie disectors, script writers, journalists, tlak show hosts, and a hundred other thoughtful and sensitive voices who have been raised to think the epitome of all evil is the "businessman". |
That's out of the realm of the scientific debate. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Have you spent any time going over the dissenting evidence? If you are interested in this idea, you owe it to yourself to approach it with an open mind and look at opposing views.
Check out the series I posted. |
There's a small core of scientists who argue HIV does not cause AIDS. They have, to laymen, very persuasive arguments that HIV does not cause AIDS.
What, in the end, qualifies you or I or politicians to judge the merits of one complex theory over another? South Africa for a time listened to the anti-HIV theorists. That led to a massive disaster. Some African nations are listening to the rebels who claim vaccinations lead to autism or other health problems (or weird conspiracies like vaccinations are causing impotence in black people). The result... skyrocketing diseases that are on the march to being eliminated like small pox.
In the final analysis we have to bet on the consensus agreement of scientists. When different scientists from different fields all seem to get together and realize a consensus, where is the safe bet? The 12 guys and a newspaper article that argues differently? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| In the final analysis we have to bet on the consensus agreement of scientists. When different scientists from different fields all seem to get together and realize a consensus, where is the safe bet? The 12 guys and a newspaper article that argues differently? |
There is not a consensus. What has happened is that those who believe in this religions shout down those who dissent by calling them names and questioning their motives.
The "12 guys and a newspaper article" are merely the tip of the iceberg. I have come across much dissent that has led to me believe that this is just another religious narrative constructed for the dumb sheep by those seeking increased power. In this case God is mother Gia and Jesus is being represented by the all powerful and benevolent state. |
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