Korean Job Discussion Forums

[vonjunk]

Is staying in Korea for the long haul/term possible? With just 1-2 year working agreements it seems difficult.
Do universities all work the same way with unfair short term contracts? I know in Japan it's normal after working part-time or landing a full-time job straight away to stay long term and be pretty much equal to all the other uni professors (even the Japanese). I have the impression this isn't the case in Korea, but I'd like to know for sure.
It seems with this new law it's going to be even harder to keep the same job with the same company...god forbid us foreigners would be given fair benefits after working for one company for over 2 years!

One other thing to ask, my wife is Korean and I can get a "green card" to work in Korea...does that change anything or am I still a part-time usable ESL teacher in most Koreans' eyes?

[Homer]

I have been here since 1997 so it is possible to have a long term professional career here. However it requires some effort and a lot of networking.

My wife is Korean as well and I have an F-series visa which helps greatly for employment. I teach and do consulting (a few contracts per year) for companies and now for the government (Foreign Service). So it can be done. I know many other teachers who are thriving here as well and some on this board are also doing quite well here long term.

[Tjames426]

I was just invited back for a second year from my Hogwan. My present resident visa ends in July too.

A lot depends upon your attitude and what you can put up with. I do not go out drinking at night. Occasionally, I do lesson planning over the weekends.

But then, I teach the Harcourt Curriculum. For my Grade classes, I teach two hours of Literature/vocabulary, one hour Social Studies, one hour science, one hour writing and grammar. So, I am never wondering what I will teach.

I was very very fortunate. I have a professional as a Director. Plus, she knows if I stay, she will have all the lesson plans and homework crafted from K1 - G4...for the next foreigner.

Who just might be a lazy, drunk jerk from who knows where.

[the_beaver]

I've been here for nigh 12 years.

I'd say it's possible.

With the F visa you're golden.

[Homer]

The F-visa does help indeed. You can also work long term on the E-2 but it is a little more restrictive.

[jaderedux]

I really found out I loved teaching. I have been at the same school for 5 years. But I have F2. That can help or hinder depends on the situation. Some schools want a newbie that thay can say "oh look the sky is green and you have to teach 30 classes a week" and the newbie just goes with it.

But all in all most schools prefer to keep the "good" teachers as they usually can take care of themselves and they don't have to pay for Visa run.

Jade

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I'm on an E-visa, I've been at my public middle / high school a year and a half, and plan at least another year and a half. The other day my VP sat me down asking if I wanted to renew my contract in August 2007. Yep, I think I do. Then he wanted to know about August 2008. Well, who knows what's going to transpire between now and then? All the same, he's made it very clear a number of times that he wants me to say here long-term. The problem is with visas and contracts. There's simply no way, even if my school wanted it, for me to get any sort of tenure of the kind the senior KTs have with the related pay scale. Instead, I have what would be a really good contract for a junior Korean contract teacher. Even if I had an F-visa it wouldn't make any difference - I'll always be year-by-year. The only way I've heard of people getting anything different is by becomming a tenured professor at a university or getting a Korean partner or spouse and starting a hagwon. Tenured professorships or lectureships for foreigners, however, are very rare and hagwons risky investments.

On the other hand, if one has experience, connections, and knows Korea, a career teaching somewhere at a decent place is certainly an option.

[Hollywoodaction]

[ttompatz]

[PRagic]

A good many of the good paying university jobs have started imposting term limits, but there are still some long-term potential jobs out there. As far as I know, the universities that do NOT impose term limits, however, don't offer the most competitive employment packages. People stay there because they get comfortable, and/or don't have the credentials to secure better jobs. In my book, 2.0-2.8/month for 15-18+ hours isn't that great no matter how long they'd 'let' me stay there!

As far as being 'on par' with Korean university professors (as you say is possible in Japan), the only way to do it is to step up and get the proper qualifications to go for a tenure-track job, as is much the case in Japan. Get your Ph.D., publish, attend conferences, give papers...you get the idea. No, with an MA, you will not ever be considered an equal at a university. You will be an instructor, and, while perhaps even a valuable one, replacable none-the-less. Your only leg up is that you are a native speaker, and, as other posters have correctly pointed out, there are pleanty to chose from here. More and more of them, in fact, have better and better qualifications. Don't expect equal footing if you're not going to put the work in to be qualified to expect it.

Another thing you have to realize is the grand pecking order. Unfortunately, for all the lip service paid to ESL education and the importance of English here, the departments that handle the teaching are pretty low on the totem pole in terms of funding. They don't want to, or simply won't, pay more for better ESL teachers, and they think there is no need to. Pay levels haven't gone up in years, and, in many cases, have actually gone DOWN. Future prospects aren't much better. Many universities are going on the cheap and doing their freshman English programs through a university-owned hakwon. These places, while better than your run-of-the-mill private hakwon in terms of employment conditions, offer less pay and less vacation than standard university positions. Look at what happened at KonKuk, SNU, and Korea University. Yikes! How many people are working at universities now that don't even get annual salary increases, housing, or a decent wage? I was making 2.5 with free housing for 16 hours IN 1998! What does THAT tell you? That was almost 10 years ago, but people NOW are saying, 'Hey, that doens't sound too bad.'

My 2 cents if you are looking long-term for an ESL teaching career in Korea:

1) Avoid all national universities. They spearheaded the term-limits, and they are famous for making more policy changes in a year (that detract from teachers' employment conditions) than an average school does over the course of a career.
2) Get your qualifications/certificates out of the way. Minimum MA + CELTA (DELTA even better). Anything less, and you're remarkably substitutable.
3) Start angling toward ESL TRAINER, not trench-level beginner ESL teacher positions. You want to be teaching future teachers, not freshman English. I think that in the future, the best teachers will be in teacher training or advanced classes, and the wannbes will be stuck in the mandatory, first-year, basic English classes.
4) Specialize (teacher training, communication, technology applications, writing...) in one or two key areas
5) Shoot for well funded programs in smaller private universities for your 'long-term job'. One or two years at a 'big name' university help long-term job prospects, but they tend to go on the cheap in the blink of an eye.
6) Look for additional work that you can do that won't cut into your semester teaching duties (proofreading, test writing, writing...).
7) Don't go apesh%t on the overtime. Do an extra class to look 'dedicated', but don't load up. It cuts down on your productivity in the classroom, and the pay usually blows. Spread your work out and you'll enjoy it more. Do SOME teaching, SOME writing, SOME editing and you'll be less likely to get burned out. You'll also feel less indebted to your department for income, which can be empowering.
Get your own housing ASAP. This gets you away from the campus and does away with the largest source of headaches associated with most jobs. This gives you more freedom, and 'them' less power over you. Sounds corny, but it's true. You can't be expected to have any perceived authority over the long-term from the point of view of someone giving you a place to live!

[Unposter]

Nice post PRagic!

[ben the saint]

Yes, agreed some very good advice.

I�m a lifer here too. Been here since 1990 and love the opportunities that Korea and Asia offer. And yes, it is possible to have a long term professional career here. Homer is right; it does take a lot of work and networking. Visa status is not all that important if you stick to just teaching. But if you want the better things in life then the F type is the best way to go.
I�m a business consultant and do some side teaching jobs from time to time. Most of my work is with the Korean Government (banking), multinational companies, and business lecturing for the same group of universities now for 9 years. I have worked hard to create the positions I have. Lots of leg work.

�Tenured professor at a university� not on an E-2 visa. Maybe some on F type visas. That�s why they have an E-1 visa.

My advice to add:

1. Make a game plan. Short term and long term goals.
2. Execute your game plan, be flexible and adjust to changes.
3. Stay focused on why you�re here and don�t let the little things or culture differences bother you.
4. Remember, networking is the key to making extra money here.
5. PR is on the money about Housing!!!


One more thing. The new law that Hollywood is talking about will have no effect on the ESL industry. It�s only for the 3 D workers and in my opinion just another crappy law to hide the ugly situation here with them.

My 2 cent here.

[Homer]

On the question of tenure.....you do not really need it here because demand is well beyond the supply of teachers. You can find work every year with little worry and this trend is not about to change substantially Job security is not the cure-all that some seem to think it is. Most people work without it and not having tenure can be an advantage in certain ways as you can have more freedom of movement.

Anyway, the point has been made that being successful long-term here is not only doable but it is also something that can lead to a lot of professional success and satisfaction.

You can do this by sticking to teaching or by branching out like some of us do (consulting in my case, editing for others....and man more examples).

[Zoot]

Maybe I should start another thread about this but I was wondering about work for a native English speaker outside the EFL industry. Someone has mentioned the foreign service and consulting. Is there any way to make that your primary occupation? If so, where would one find information about this? I really like Korea but EFL teaching is NOT COOL for me - at least not in the situations I've found myself it. How about teaching at an international school - NOT just English but other stuff, too. How do you go about finding thse jobs?

[Ryst Helmut]