Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jajdude]

This is something I've thought about lately. It could be something to do with the way we were taught to write in school. Was it high school or uni where we were told to avoid using "I" in papers? I don't recall. Instead we were told to present things in a so-called objective manner. What a bunch of nonsense.

"The way the writer presents his arguments leaves the reader to wonder at his cleverness..." blah blah blah

vs

"I thought the writer was clever"

Which is a better and more accurate statement?

The first was the way I was told to write in school, Eng Lit major. Avoid "I" for some reason. UGH.

One of the most important things had been left out: telling facts from opinions.

Throughout this board and everywhere, really, we have the same. People saying things as though these things were facts. Separating them is the critical skill we must have. Otherwise we are lost. It's easy to forget in the arrogance we have all learned so well, of how important intellect and being correct is, that our opinions are not facts.

Hey, let's be careful.

[Qinella]

For formal writing, I prefer the writer avoid the first person in most cases. However, I can't think of any logical reason to support this. Maybe because the focus should be on the subject rather than the writer. For informal writing, such as here on the Internet, I like first person.

About your complaint, though, I just cannot empathize with you at all. If someone says something like "Canadians are tired of always being mistaken as maple syrup canisters by sticky-fingered Koreans" and you cannot distinguish that this is a reflection of a personal opinion rather than a tested fact, well.. I can't blame the writer.

Also, I think you are ascribing a writing habit to most people on here where it probably does not exist. I used to work as a copy editor for a daily (college) newspaper, and I can tell you that most people are absolute sade at writing. And these are people who want to be writers. Not everyone is aware of and consciously practicing habits such as avoiding "I", "is", and copious adjectives.

[jajdude]

Q, look carefully, many if not most posts here, and many things people say are full of opinions presents as 'facts' because people want support in their beliefs. We are all guilty.

It is wrong
Korea is soft
this is how it is..

too many to mention really

[TECO]

Good point.

[Cheonmunka]

These two cultivated writers, neigh, artists presenting us their arguments quite definitively (within the confines of this genre) have thoughtfully given me, while processing the previous episodes, a provocation to write a lot of twadwallap maself.



(And that took four edits!)

[Qinella]

[Nowhere Man]

On the one hand, avoiding I seems to make arguments sound more universal and powerful.

On the other, it does, in some sense, seem to be disingenuous.

However, I don't necessarily think avoiding the first person means one is "presenting opinions as fact".

For example, if I'm reviewing a movie, I might say "The acting is sub-par" rather than "I didn't like the acting". In this case, given that it's a movie review, I think it's clear that I'm offering an opinion.

It gets more dangerous when you deal with more charged or controversial topics. For, example, if I say "America is fundamentally benign" or, on balance, "America went into Iraq for oil", it may not be clear whether a fact or an opinion is being offered. Moreover, the person making such a statement may themselves be confused as to what they are presenting.

[Satori]

I just presume that unless someone is refering to statistical research or provable historical fact they are presenting an opinion...

[kimchi story]

I just assume that, unless my name is referenced in the works cited, the writer is presenting an opinion. ㅋㅋㅋ

Seriously jajdude, you raise a good point. And I don't think the use of passive voice and its elided subject is usually done by accident or unconciously - hence the value of the reminder that the singular of data is not anecdote.

Now, let me tell ya...

[krats1976]

[venus]

[SPINOZA]

[gang ah jee]

[venus]

Does this matter for presenting opinions on the board?

Perhaps in current events...?

Or discussing said social Humanities / Siences issues...

Surely not for Korean Table Manners or porn star names though...

[jajdude]

It does matter, because it is everywhere. Have a listen, or read almost anything. Of course it would be tedious to always say or write, "in my opinion" or "I think that.."

People are forever spouting their views, clothed in the dress of fact, assuming many will concur, but it is still nakedly narrow, an opinion. Politicians get elected this way.

Still we are left with the enormous field of opinions presented as facts.