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Samantha
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Location: Jinan-dong Hwaseong
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 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
My favorite story, after most of JongnoGuru's stories, is about a guy who was dating this Korean woman. Things progressed. He figured the next date they'd be doing it. So he wanted to be prepared and he got some condoms. They're at his place, clothes are coming off, she mentions that they will have to be careful not to make her pregnant. He says no problem, I got some condoms. Suddenly her mood changes. She seems offended and hurt. Like he's just called her a *beep*. Her bra goes back on and she leaves. He's like WTF?
Best I can figure, the message he was trying to send, that any western woman would have picked up on, was "I respect you, I will deny myself some pleasure to make sure you're safe."
The message a Korean woman might take "Was I such a shameless hussy that it was obvious to you that I was going to give it up? So you got condoms because you knew I'd be spreading my legs tonight? Is that what you think of me!"
Yeah, so clearly she was thinking withdrawal. |
Exactly most western women would be sitting there going ok he had supplies ready just in case something happened. It's equivalent to a woman putting in her diaphragm or spermicidal foam before she goes out. Hell technically taking the pill everyday can be classified the same way, especially if the woman isn't taking it for health reasons, but strictly to prevent "unplanned" pregnancies. It's not a garauntee it's a precaution. I don't know of many women who would take offense at it unless they have really low self-esteem or are really paranoid/jealous.
Like I said before, it's the reason I brought some with me. I figured if the rumors on the board here are true that the Korean brands are difficult for most Western men to wear, then I wanted to make sure that one of us would have some because while I may not plan to have sex with someone while I'm here (it might happen, it might not, either way I'm not real worried) I definately do not plan on have kids here or pick up any nasty little bugs.
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I worked at a hogwon in Seoul one year (a terrible, terrible year) and one night we are all having drinks after work. Of course some of the guys are dating some of the korean co-teachers and we are all talking smack when one of the Korean girls (25 years old mind you) pipes up about how she "knows" that she can only get pregnant 2-3 days a month, all the other days she is safe. The look on her boyfriends face was the funniest thing I have ever seen. After that he got her on the pill asap. |
I can't believe this logic is still common given all the crap that's in the news and the things you can catch. 
But then again maybe all the coverage and the lecturing is a western thing. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Samantha wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I worked at a hogwon in Seoul one year (a terrible, terrible year) and one night we are all having drinks after work. Of course some of the guys are dating some of the korean co-teachers and we are all talking smack when one of the Korean girls (25 years old mind you) pipes up about how she "knows" that she can only get pregnant 2-3 days a month, all the other days she is safe. The look on her boyfriends face was the funniest thing I have ever seen. After that he got her on the pill asap. |
I can't believe this logic is still common given all the crap that's in the news and the things you can catch.
But then again maybe all the coverage and the lecturing is a western thing. |
Both seem to be about as logical (by which I mean lacking in logic) as the other. On one hand we have a Korean girl claiming she can't get pregnant most of the time, and on the other hand we have a western guy going in for an HIV test twice a year and saying that life is dangerous, oh well, instead of looking for something more monogamous or at least a person that will get tested before having sex. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| and on the other hand we have a western guy going in for an HIV test twice a year and saying that life is dangerous, oh well, instead of looking for something more monogamous or at least a person that will get tested before having sex. |
I just acknowledge that men are incapable of monogomy and so I always use protection and demand that my partners do the same.
BTW Health Canada suggests that all adults 18-65 get an HIV test once a year as part of their annual physical. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| men are incapable of monogomy |
How so? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not flaming here but that just might be the stupidest question ever asked on Dave's in the history of Dave's.
Some men are, but they are in the minority, even when I dated a woman (yes a tragic lapse on my part in my younger straight days) we had an agreement about sleeping with other people. It's just a fact. I would say 10% of men are actually capable of monogamy, the rest are in some degree unfaithful (whether it be another person on the side, or pornography, or flirting, or "vacations" with the guys in Thailand, etc etc etc) men are not designed to be monogomous, we are designed to spread our seed to as many people as possible. It is only religion that has hoisted monogomy upon us. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
I'm not flaming here but that just might be the stupidest question ever asked on Dave's in the history of Dave's.
Some men are, but they are in the minority, even when I dated a woman (yes a tragic lapse on my part in my younger straight days) we had an agreement about sleeping with other people. It's just a fact. I would say 10% of men are actually capable of monogamy, the rest are in some degree unfaithful (whether it be another person on the side, or pornography, or flirting, or "vacations" with the guys in Thailand, etc etc etc) men are not designed to be monogomous, we are designed to spread our seed to as many people as possible. It is only religion that has hoisted monogomy upon us. |
Read your statement again:
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| I just acknowledge that men are incapable of monogomy |
Nowhere did you write 'most men', just 'men'.
Doing a quick search on a probably not spectacularly accurate but better than nothing poll from the Associated Press, we get the following:
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* 22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
* 14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
* Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
* 70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
* 5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the 1997.
* 22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
* 90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
* 50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
* 61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
* 17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
Source: Associated Press |
Most people would not define looking at pornography from time to time or the odd flirt as a breach of conduct though it seems as if you do. Why set the bar for monogamy so high? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and a quick reading of Gilgamesh shows that religion is certainly not the origin of monogamy. I give you Shamhat the temple prostitute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamhat
The origin of monogamy is the desire for stability + jealousy, I assume. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Why set the bar for monogamy so high? |
If you're going to do something, u should do it right, no?
And no crappy wikipedia links please. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
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| Why set the bar for monogamy so high? |
If you're going to do something, u should do it right, no?
And no crappy wikipedia links please. |
http://gainesjunction.tamu.edu/issues/vol4num1/rgalantucci/
There you go, next time do your own Google search. I'm afraid nobody but the most extreme define flirting from time to time as a breach of monogamy. I would say the majority of people define cheating as anything from a long hug, holding hands and beyond. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Samantha wrote: |
I can't believe this logic is still common given all the crap that's in the news and the things you can catch.
But then again maybe all the coverage and the lecturing is a western thing. |
No Korean man would accept that his GF has had a lover before him. And many would believe kimchi is proof against AIDS and AIDS is a western disease. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Men and monogamy don't mix. Whether you think watching porn violates monogamy doesn't really matter, because the point is that it demonstrates the very real threat and likelyhood of men cheating.
I've been with a shade under 50 women, but I've never cheated. That said, I've had 3-somes and been with multiple women in a night. I've been with multiple women in a week. I'm capable of monogamy, but there are times when I see something that gets me sprung and if I was a little inebriated I'd likely do something I shouldn't.
I've fantasized about old girlfriends while having sex with someone else.
Men are NOT to be trusted. Under no circumstances. It's just that simple.
And for STD tests. They're smart. Once a year makes perfect sense in this day and age, and to deny that is to deny reality. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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I believe that men have been shaped by evolution not to be monogamous.
I also believe that our behaviour is a lot more determined by genetics than most people realise (or would like to acknowledge).
However for evolutionary reasons also, both males and females value fidelity highly in a partner and social conditioning is a very powerful force in controlling behaviour. For that reason therefore it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of men were faithful.
I wouldn't trust a man to be tho'. Also for gay men fidelity is much less an issue. I'd rather a partner to be careful than faithful. For me, not using condoms will never be an option.
(And I'm getting burned out with promising breakthro's every few years with HIV...I won't be impressed till all the clinical trials are done.) |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
(And I'm getting burned out with promising breakthro's every few years with HIV...I won't be impressed till all the clinical trials are done.) |
That is unfortunately the nature of biomedical research. Stuff that works great in a test tube doesn't work in humans. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
(And I'm getting burned out with promising breakthro's every few years with HIV...I won't be impressed till all the clinical trials are done.) |
That is unfortunately the nature of biomedical research. Stuff that works great in a test tube doesn't work in humans. |
I was actually referring more to the headlines about it. As soon as I read that that they'e still at the 'in vitro' and nowhere near the 'in vivo' stage disappointment sets in.
And while I understand why they do that I still feel short-changed. |
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Samantha
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Location: Jinan-dong Hwaseong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe in strict monogamy while dating, to me that means until death do you part forsaking all others. That's fine for marriage to an extent. When it comes to dating, I like quite a few Americans my age, follow serial monogamy. This is the theory that while you are in the relationship you are faitful to each other. No "dating activities" (kissing, hugging outside of a platonic nature, holding hands) with someone not your partner. You can still admire and comment on someone not your partner you just can't touch.
Personally, if I'm in a relationship and start feeling the need/desire to try out someone else for those activities then I re-evalute relationship or end it. I would expect my boyfriend/lover to do the same. To me, that is serial monogamy. Completely faithful to each other for the life of the relationship. If that relationship turns into marriage and kids, so be it. If it doesn't no biggie. |
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