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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: Americans sending mixed signals on science |
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Ahh, this is for all those on Dave's who are very ignorant and refuse to believe in science and fact!
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AN FRANCISCO - People in the U.S. know more about basic science today than they did two decades ago, good news that researchers say is tempered by an unsettling growth in the belief in pseudoscience such as astrology and visits by extraterrestrial aliens.
In 1988 only about 10 percent knew enough about science to understand reports in major newspapers, a figure that grew to 28 percent by 2005, according to Jon D. Miller, a Michigan State University professor. He presented his findings Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
The improvement largely reflects the requirement that all college students have at least some science courses, Miller said. This way, they can better keep up with new developments through the media.
A panel of researchers expressed concern that people are giving increasing credence to pseudoscience such as the visits of space aliens, lucky numbers and horoscopes.
In addition, these researchers noted an increase in college students who report they are �unsure� about creationism as compared with evolution.
More recent generations know more factual material about science, said Carol Susan Losh, an associate professor at Florida State University. But, she said, when it comes to pseudoscience, �the news is not good.�
One problem, she said, is that pseudoscience can speak to the meaning of life in ways that science does not.
Looking to the stars for love
For example, for many women having a good life still depends on whom they marry, she said.
�What does astrology speak to? Love relationships,� Losh said, noting that belief in horoscopes is much higher among women than men.
The disclosure that former first lady Nancy Reagan consulted an astrologer resulted in widespread derision in the media, but few younger people remember that episode today, she said.
Miller said most readers of horoscopes are women, contributing to the listing of �female� as a leading negative factor in science literacy. Women also tended to take fewer college science courses, he said.
Belief in abduction by space aliens is also on the rise, Losh said.
�It�s not surprising that the generation that grew up on �Twilight Zone� and early �Star Trek� television endorsed a link between UFOs and alien spacecraft,� she said.
Bigfoot out, creationism in
Pseudoscience discussion is often absent from the classroom, Losh said, so �we have basically left it up to the media.�
Raymond Eve of the University of Texas at Arlington had mixed news in surveys of students at an unnamed Midwestern university.
The share that believed aliens had visited Earth fell from 25 percent in 1983 to 15 percent in 2006. There was also a decline in belief in �Bigfoot� and in whether psychics can predict the future.
But there also has been a drop in the number of people who believe evolution correctly explains the development of life on Earth and an increase in those who believe mankind was created about 10,000 years ago.
Miller said a second major negative factor to scientific literacy was religious fundamentalism and aging.
Having taken college science courses was a strong positive influence, followed by overall education and informal science learning through the media. Having children at home also resulted in adults being more scientifically informed, he said.
Nick Allum of the University of Surry in England suggested belief in astrology might be a simple misunderstanding of the question, with people confusing astrology with astronomy.
In one European study about 25 percent of people said they thought astrology was very scientific. But when the question was rephrased to horoscopes that fell to about 7 percent. |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17206139/ |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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AN FRANCISCO - People in the U.S. know more about basic science today than they did two decades ago, good news that researchers say is tempered by an unsettling growth in the belief in pseudoscience such as astrology and visits by extraterrestrial aliens.
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I am not too worried about people believing in astrology. I don't like it myself, and have seen the negative effects that it can have on the psychology of those who believe in it. But I don't think that being a competent scientist requires purging one's mind of all adherence to superstition. I personally know civil engineeers who believe that the Virgin Mary has made appearances all over the world. To my knowledge, this belief has not effected their ability to construct sustainable bridges and tunnels.
Creationism is a different story, because its adherents are now claiming sceintific authority for their beliefs, and are trying to have it taught as science in the schools. (And no, I am not interested in debating creationists on this thread.) |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Octavius: one can find "mixed signals" on any and every issue in America, so this is hardly surprising (or even news, really).
This interests me...
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| ...an increase in college students who report they are "unsure" about creationism as compared with evolution. |
I teach undergrads. Undergrads are indeed "unsure" about a great deal. One, for example, just last semester turned in a final exam that told me how the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor with nuclear weapons and that the Americans then interned Japanese-Americans "under Hitler's approving eye..."
I just had another one tell me in a paper that Jefferson Davis opposed the North on the slavery issue -- the other way around.
In short, they are undergrads. Still learning. Give them time.
As for "creationism" in my circle and on my level: nonexistent, even among those who hold religious views (and most of us are agnostic on religion). Anyone arguing creationism -- and I have never seen one; I would find it disconcerting to hear about one, to say the least -- would probably be laughed out of the seminar room or the conference hall.
We guard "academic freedom" pretty tightly -- unlike public elementary, middle, and high schools who do not have that luxury. Indeed, we teach evolution as if it were fact and I have never seen a creationist lecture or text in any university. The debate concerns various theories of how exactly evolution unfolds (e.g., "punctuated equilibrium") and not whether it unfolds. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Space Aliens are real. The proof is irrefutable. Since no visa was acquired before hand, they were likely illegal space aliens as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Since evolution presumes the existence of life - yet still can't explain consciousness as an emergent property of matter - it makes sense to assume that that conscious life pre-dates material evolution.
Moreover, our limited consciousness may be understood as a non-material (spiritual) energy emanating from an infinitely conscious being trancendental to laws of nature... All matter also emanates from the same inexhaustible energetic source...
Defining God as the supreme controller of all his various emanating energies - and individual souls as units of his marginal energy - his unlimited power and intelligence is inconceivable from a material perspective.
Because individual souls (i.e. atomic particles of spirit) are infinitessimal,
we are either under the control of God's external (material) energy or his internal (spiritual) energy.
Those of us who are in material bodily consciousness falsely identify ourselves with our gross physical bodies. We can not ascertain, through any speculative process, where we came from, where we are going, or who/what we really are...
However, souls liberated from mundane conscioiusness by a process of self-realization (as was often the case in Vedic times) can access knowledge of past, present, and future lives by successfully utilizing the revealed science of Jyotish Vedic astrology...
There are some modern practicioners of Vedic astrology who claim to be proficient, but I seriously doubt that their proficiency would approach that of powerful Brahmins of bygone ages (such as Bhrgu ..)
This one here at least has a nice webpage, though: http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/ |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Since evolution presumes the existence of life - yet still can't explain consciousness as an emergent property of matter - it makes sense to assume that that conscious life pre-dates material evolution. |
No, it doesn't make sense to assume that. Consciousness has been shown to be a byproduct of living matter. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| The improvement largely reflects the requirement that all college students have at least some science courses, Miller said. |
Oh?
How do you explain IGTG, then? He's one of YOURS. (God in heaven, I hope I'm right.) |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I kind of have a problem with the idea that 300,000,000 Americans speak with one voice on much of anything. It reminds me of the posts here at Dave's where someone sees 6 Koreans demonstrating for or against something in front of the American embassy (do they EVER demonstrate in front of anyone else's?) and then assuming that ALL Koreans must believe whatever they read on the poster.
Perhaps, Mr. OH, since over the last year an a half or so, you have decreased PUBLICALLY measuring absolutely everything in relation to the US, it's time for you to begin Lesson #2: Not everyone in a country thinks EXACTLY the same about every public issue.
(If you hang in here long enough, you might even become what is euphemistically known as 'educated'.) |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I kind of have a problem with the idea that 300,000,000 Americans speak with one voice on much of anything. It reminds me of the posts here at Dave's where someone sees 6 Koreans demonstrating for or against something in front of the American embassy (do they EVER demonstrate in front of anyone else's?) and then assuming that ALL Koreans must believe whatever they read on the poster.
Perhaps, Mr. OH, since over the last year an a half or so, you have decreased PUBLICALLY measuring absolutely everything in relation to the US, it's time for you to begin Lesson #2: Not everyone in a country thinks EXACTLY the same about every public issue. |
I think a roadtrip through a few dozen states might be a good idea for lesson #3. Ah, so Utah and California aren't quite the same. Imagine that. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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I think a roadtrip through a few dozen states might be a good idea for lesson #3. Ah, so Utah and California aren't quite the same. Imagine that.
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But Mr. Mith,
This would require knowing that American states actually can be different (not to mention PEOPLE). That goes against generalizing all Americans as being the same. Not done in circles where Americans are ALL _____ (fill in the blank).
PS: Sorry I missed meeting you last week at Big Rock. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Gopher lists things that I thought people knew after 5th grade.
I mean, I went to Catholic schools and I don't get Intelligent Design shoved down my throat. Maybe the Catholic thing kept the fundamentalists away from me . . .
Are these people just slipping through the cracks or what? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Matter is not "living" unless there is consciousness present within it. Consciousness is a symptom of the soul, and when the soul leaves a particular material body, that body is no longer living or conscious.
The only way that material scientists can demonstrate that consciousness is essentially material is to bring a dead body back to life by some material process (eg: injecting some combination of chemicals ...) |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I am not interested in debating creationists on this thread. |
This calls for repeating.
RTeacher and Mindmetoo: you have several megathreads on this pointless argument already. Why not take this up (again) on one of those? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, it's pointless to discuss "negative factors affecting scientific literacy" without understanding negative factors within modern science itself which limits its understanding of life in this relatively small universe.
If modern science's assumption that everything that exists - including conscious life - can be explained in terms of material causation, then it may well be that some of these "negative factors" such as belief in astrology, UFOs, or various creationist models are actually "positive factors" in the quest for truth (and may also be termed "science" in a higher sense...) |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Shut up. |
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