Korean Job Discussion Forums

bixlerscott · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Location: Near Wonju, South Korea

Hello,

Can anyone tell me how best to deal with 11 to 13 year olds who are rebelling and behaving very negatively?

Alyallen · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:00 am Post subject:

More info....

Is this a hagwon or a public school?

Will you be supported by the school if you discipline the students or will they hang you out to dry?

How are the students misbehaving?

poet13 · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:09 am Post subject:

If they are a gang, you need to separate them. Not physically. This might sound f-ed up, but it's 101. When one boy acts out, punish the others. Keep doing it. Eventually the other students will get tired of being punished for another person actions. Peer pressure works. There was a thread about this last summer. The break point is when "the gang" sets upon it's own members.
I haven't said it well, but essentially you need to make them turn on each other.

riley · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: where creditors can find me

Make sure the rules are clear, make sure they are simple for the students to follow, and make sure to follow up when the boys break them.

With boys, sometimes you have to let them know that they pissed you off without resorting to violence, and other times you have to let them know that while they are screwing around and you will punish them, that you aren't bothered by the actions. This depends on both who the student is and how long you've been teaching them. Hardcases, I need them to understand that I am putting them outside because I don't want to resort to other options. Boys I've been teaching for awhile, I tend to cut them some slack. I think also it helps to let them know that you have done the same mistakes as they did.

bixlerscott · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Location: Near Wonju, South Korea

Yes, this is in a hagwon. The details.

They like to speak Korean, especially when I am talking. They like to play cell phone games and card games in class. They have extremely pessimistic attitude towards doing school work and thier teacher. They disrepect me with great disdain, becuase they do not like authority. They refuse to speak out loud, whether out of book after me or answering a question. They refuse to answer to attendance roll when there name is called. When I ask them how they are doing, they are like, "so, so" or "I don't know". I ask, "Why are you only so so or you don't know?". They clam up and withdraw on me. They complain of a clock time telling bingo game being too hard for them while complaining that hangman is boring even if it involves a long sentence rather than just a few words. They complain they have too much homework. They complain they go to school too much. They complain they are tired. They complain that I go too slow for them, but yet they get lost and frustrated if I speed up. They threaten to walk out on me. They play dead on me at times when it is time to speak. They are so impatient that they will not let me talk to tell them what to do or how to do it, while screaming, "teacher! what? teacher! what?". After one month of trying to be nice with positive attitude, I decided that something had to give. Today, I made sure all hell broke loose to establish new ground.

When I snatched thier cell phones and cards today in class, they fought me for them back with all their might. I got the vice-director involved and they lied to her that they were trying to put these things away. Yea, right, very funny. She knows better. She told them they will obey or suffur much more serious consequences. And tears were shed.

At my school, I am finding it is better to get vice-director involved to handle discilpline matters rather than trying to deal with problem childs on my own. We all foreign teachers do it, becuase the kids disrepect us like they never would a Korean teacher and vice-director knows this. I find it's best to get her involved despite the fact she is highly busy at all times rather than getting mad or yelling or ordering kids to stand in the corner.

No, we are not hung out to dry on discilplining them, but the Korean staff do not get strict enough with them as Korean teachers do not experience such problems as foreigners do when teaching due to kids seeing a foreinger as "less" of a teacher to get over on and maybe get a little play time in. When I ask them what is fun, they only say, "computer games". Anything is only about computer games, robots, cell phones, wierd card game, and rebelling. I like these sorts of things too, but they lack English skills to have a basic conversation about anything, becuase I sure try in order to feel out their English abilities and try to establish common ground with them, so we much stay in book curriculum and play English games, if only these rebels without a cause were open minded and happy.

I understand that these kids may not be getting enough physical play in and social activity, but I cannot just let them play and talk in Korean.

I could scare them a bit (works in moderation for discilpline of kindergarten in the beginning to establish who is boss), but I do not want them going home talking crapola (they probably already do since they do not like going to school) as they are spoiled little rich brats (overly confident softies) to be honest about this particular class.

I am sure many of you have seen a situation like this that seems impossible, but you know there is a way, I know there is a way to successfully turn this class around and get results and optimism out of them.

oneofthesarahs · Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Location: Sacheon City

poet13 · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:59 am Post subject:

They like to speak Korean, especially when I am talking. TELL THEM SHARPLY NOT BE SPEAK WHEN YOU ARE SPEAKING.
They like to play cell phone games TAKE THEM AWAY.
and card games in classTAKE THEM AWAY TOO
. They have extremely pessimistic attitude towards doing school work and thier teacher. SO?
They disrepect me with great disdain, becuase they do not like authority. NOT ACCEPTABLE. TALK TO THE DIRECTOR.
They refuse to speak out loud, whether out of book after me or answering a question. IF YOU KNOW THEY KNOW THE ANSWER, AND YOU WANT TO PRESS IT, ASK AGAIN. NO ANSWER? ASK AGAIN. NO ANSWER? ASK AGAIN. NO ANSWER? ASK AGAIN. NO ANSWER? ASK AG....UNDERSTAND?
They refuse to answer to attendance roll when there name is called. MARK THEM ABSENT
When I ask them how they are doing, they are like, "so, so" or "I don't know". THAT'S FINE. I ask, "Why are you only so so or you don't know?". They clam up and withdraw on me. THATS ALRIGHT. MAKE A SHOW OF CHECKING THEIR PULSE. PUT A COAT OVER HIS HEAD AND TELL EVERYONE HE DIED.
They complain of a clock time telling bingo game being too hard for them while complaining that hangman is boring even if it involves a long sentence rather than just a few words.???HUH???
They complain they have too much homework. YOU GIVE THEM HOMEWORK? IT'S A HAKWON.
They complain they go to school too much. NO THEY DON'T . THEY DO HAVE TOO MANY OTHER THINGS TO DO IN A DAY, ONE OF WHICH IS GOING TO A HAKWON.
They complain they are tired. THEY ARE. TRUST ME.
They complain that I go too slow for them, but yet they get lost and frustrated if I speed up. MAKE IT THE DIRECOTRS PROBLEM. ASK HIM OF HER WHAT SPEED OR LEVEL THEY SHOULD BE TAUGHT. NOW YOU HAVE AN EXCUSE, NOT TO THEM, BUT TO THE PARENTS.
They threaten to walk out on me. BYE BYE. PLEASE BE QUIET WHILE YOU LEAVE.....OH....WHAT WAS YOUR FATHERS CELL PHONE NUMBER?
They play dead on me at times when it is time to speak. NOT SPEAKING I PRESUME....ADDRESSED BEFORE.
They are so impatient that they will not let me talk to tell them what to do or how to do it, while screaming, "teacher! what? teacher! what?". TELL THEM IT'S A SECRET AND YOU WILL ONLY TELL ONE PERSON. MAKE THEM DECIDE WHO. GET THAT PERSON TELL TELL ANOTHER. AND HIM OR HER ANOTHER. (PSSSSSTTT. NOW YOU HAVE A GAME. ENGLISH IS SUDDNELY FUN!)
After one month of trying to be nice with positive attitude, I decided that something had to give. SHOULD HAVE BEEN DAY TWO
Today, I made sure all hell broke loose to establish new ground. GOOD
NOW KEEP IT UP.

When I snatched thier cell phones and cards today in class, they fought me for them back with all their might. I got the vice-director involved and they lied to her that they were trying to put these things away. Yea, right, very funny. She knows better. She told them they will obey or suffur much more serious consequences. And tears were shed. AWSESOME. STICK TO YOUR GUNS. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE SOME BACKUP THERE.

At my school, I am finding it is better to get vice-director involved to handle discilpline matters rather than trying to deal with problem childs on my own. ONLY SOMETIMES. IF YOU DONT DEAL WITH STUFF YOURSELF, YOU WILL QUICKLY BE KNOWN AS TOOTHLESS.
We all foreign teachers do it, becuase the kids disrepect us like they never would a Korean teacher HELL NO NOT IN MY CLASS. I CAN MAKE A KID CRY IN LESS THAN 30 SECONDS and vice-director knows this. I find it's best to get her involved despite the fact she is highly busy at all times rather than getting mad or yelling or ordering kids to stand in the corner. YOU'RE IN A TOUGH SPOT THERE. IT'S GREAT THAT THE VICE UNDERSTANDS YOUR SITUATION, BUT THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH IT DETERMINES THE RESPECT YOU RECIEVE IN THE FUTURE.

No, we are not hung out to dry on discilplining them, but the Korean staff do not get strict enough with them as Korean teachers do not experience such problems as foreigners do when teaching due to kids seeing a foreinger as "less" of a teacher to get over on and maybe get a little play time in. When I ask them what is fun, they only say, "computer games". Anything is only about computer games, robots, cell phones, wierd card game, and rebelling. THATS COOL, BUT MAKE THEM TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT IN ENGLISH. THERE'S A PLACE TO START!
I like these sorts of things too, but they lack English skills to have a basic conversation about anything, THATS WHY YOU'RE THERE.
becuase I sure try in order to feel out their English abilities and try to establish common ground with them, so we much stay in book curriculum and play English games, if only these rebels without a cause were open minded and happy.

I understand that these kids may not be getting enough physical play in and social activity, but I cannot just let them play and talk in Korean. NO, BUT YOU CAN FIND THEIR TRIGGER, THE THING THAT THEY ARE SO INTERESTED IN, THAT THEY WILL TALK ABOUT IT IN LATVIAN IF THEY HAVE TO. (PSST, YOU ALREADY FOUND IT.)

I could scare them a bit PUS*Y (works in moderation for discilpline of kindergarten in the beginning to establish who is boss), but I do not want them going home talking crapola (they probably already do since they do not like going to school) as they are spoiled little rich brats (overly confident softies) to be honest about this particular class. SO IF THEY ALREADY GO HOME AND TALK SMACK, DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, AND IF THEY HAVE A COMPLAINT ABOUT IT, TELL THEM TO TELL THEIR PARENTS TO CALL YOU.

I am sure many of you have seen a situation like this that seems impossible, but you know there is a way, I know there is a way to successfully turn this class around and get results and optimism out of them. I THINK YOU HAVE A GOOD SUPPORT SYSTEM IN PLACE ALREADY WITH THE VICE PRINCIPAL. IT MIGHT HELP TO ACTUALLY ASK THE VP HOW FAR YOU ARE ALLOWED TO GO. "CAN I PUT X BOY IN THE HALL?"

GOOD LUCK. TELL US WHAT HAPPENS.
_________________
"Perhaps it's best if I just keep my thoughts to myself from now on since I lack knowledge on the subject"

ajuma · Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

poet13 had a lot of great suggestions!! Who is the teacher/adult here?? YOU ARE!! The kids are NOT your friends and they don't have to like you, but they DO have to respect you!! It's up to you to set the ground rules.

This weekend, come up with some good, clear class rules and consequences. If they do X action, X will be the result. AND STICK TO THE RULES!! A student takes out their phone in class (especially under their desk)? Take the phone until the end of the class. They fight you for it? Out they go, even if you have to drag them kicking and screaming. Or, take all phones at the beginning of class and they can only get them back if they answer a question at the end of class.

Disrespect? Out of class IMMEDIATELY!!

Talking when you talk? If you're old/strict enough, give them the "mom" stare. If you're not, stand in front of little Jin Soo and stare directly at him while you are talking. He laughs at you? OUT!

Your problem is that you tried to be too nice to begin with. It's tough to make up the lost ground, but if you're firm and consistant with your rules (go over them EVERY DAY), things should get better.

poet13

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