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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Second chlorine bomb stokes fears in Iraq |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070222/ts_nm/iraq1_dc_27
Hrm. I'm wondering if the Bush government will start a new chain of denials that the troops are now in the middle of chemical warfare attacks.
First they denied the insurgency (it was explained it was just a few dying Saddam loyalists elements firing off ammo).
Second they denied there was any problem with the number of troops they had.
Third they denied there was a civil war brewing.
Each denial was later replaced by a carefully worded admission.
Anything else the Bush government denied? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Man you're stupid, thats not chlorine gas you're smelling, that's freedom! If you are just going to read those left-wing, pro-islamofascim rags you're always going to be out of the loop.
Seriously though, this escalation to chemical weapons attacks (two in as many days) is, as far as I know, unprecidented in this kind of conflict (a low intensity, urban insurgency). This is a scary development. Add to this the new penchant for shooting down helicopters the war is looking more and more unwinnable to even the dumbest rightwingers.
Also, the fact that FOXnews, CNN and MSNBC all but buried the story (CNN had it as their headline and then mysteriously pulled it for Prince Harry and 7 tools who got lost on Mt. Hood in February) and that should be investigated. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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If the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome.
Last edited by The Hammer on Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hammer wrote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome. |
But you're not suggesting the US should just dump chemical weapons indiscriminately on whole neighborhoods? |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Effects of chlorine:
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Hammer wrote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome. |
But you're not suggesting the US should just dump chemical weapons indiscriminately on whole neighborhoods? |
No, I am pointing out the blind eye that many people have with respect to the savagery of the terrorists. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome.
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This is a bad thing. Nobody's denying that.
Someone else doing it makes it equally awful.
The reason it's not all over the place is because, well, Chlorine bombs usually mean "we're serious."
That makes it hard to underhandedly deny this is a civil war. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hammer wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Hammer wrote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome. |
But you're not suggesting the US should just dump chemical weapons indiscriminately on whole neighborhoods? |
No, I am pointing out the blind eye that many people have with respect to the savagery of the terrorists. |
I'm not sure anyone is so confused they think the insurgents are care bears. However, one would still hope the American public would be outraged if America stooped to such tactics. If America isn't trying to lead by example, then it's merely a battle for power. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| Quote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome.
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This is a bad thing. Nobody's denying that.
Someone else doing it makes it equally awful.
The reason it's not all over the place is because, well, Chlorine bombs usually mean "we're serious."
That makes it hard to underhandedly deny this is a civil war. |
Dude, I think everyone knew they were serious a long time ago when they were cutting people's heads off with butcher knives.
The reason why its not all over the place is because terrorists get a free pass when they use chemical weapons and vomit mayhem all over innocent people.
Moving on to my next point. I love it when they get owned. Check out a video on you tube called COUNTER AMBUSH IRAQ (CAPTURED VIDEO). (Warning: the video is graphic and not meant to be seen by the squeamish or children. It depicts the brutality of this dumb war.)
Video Content
It shows the terrorists planning a mission with a sand table and then they implement their plan. They made the stupid mistake of initiating an attack from out in the middle of an open danger area in front of a dug in defensive position. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Anyhow, they got smoked. Hua!
Just remember that they set off that day to kill people. |
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Imbroglio
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting that video.
It only goes to show, for myself at a minimum, that America does not understand war, know of war, feel war. Terrible and part of why she is to be cursed for this act of idiocy. Making young men, good young men die and be maimed, for an injust reason and furthermore lies...
The music, the gungho bravado, the sensationalism / trivialization of death, is all too emblematic of not just the guy in the basement but the financial wizard on the 57th floor and the housewife zombied in Walmart.
Reminds me of around 2000, lost in Russia. Ekaterinburg, in search of Esenin. Just in need of rest, from the cold, from the bad food, from lots. Went into a computer cafe to spend the night. It was just one constantly filled scream of adults and kids playing some video game, shooting shooting and killing in their unwarlike mind....ugh....I didn't sleep well and instead listened to some bad blues all night at a club.
War is not an ego boost and power pill. Far from it. Read some Mailer, who knew abit about those things macho. It makes them all piss their pants and what is being paraded as war, hollywood or tv or youtube, is just a lie. One more on all those other ones.....
DD |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Thanks for posting that video.
It only goes to show, for myself at a minimum, that America does not understand war, know of war, feel war. Terrible and part of why she is to be cursed for this act of idiocy. Making young men, good young men die and be maimed, for an injust reason and furthermore lies...
The music, the gungho bravado, the sensationalism / trivialization of death, is all too emblematic of not just the guy in the basement but the financial wizard on the 57th floor and the housewife zombied in Walmart.
Reminds me of around 2000, lost in Russia. Ekaterinburg, in search of Esenin. Just in need of rest, from the cold, from the bad food, from lots. Went into a computer cafe to spend the night. It was just one constantly filled scream of adults and kids playing some video game, shooting shooting and killing in their unwarlike mind....ugh....I didn't sleep well and instead listened to some bad blues all night at a club.
War is not an ego boost and power pill. Far from it. Read some Mailer, who knew abit about those things macho. It makes them all piss their pants and what is being paraded as war, hollywood or tv or youtube, is just a lie. One more on all those other ones.....
DD |
And what do you say of the chlorine bomber boys? Nothing! I thought so. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And what do you say of the chlorine bomber boys? Nothing! I thought so. |
Nothing means exactly that. Nothing. Not good or bad. But for your misunderstanding sake, I will say something.
My only reflection on the whole mess is that I will always believe that, in war, those that are nearest their own homes/houses are always closest to the truth/right. This is the only self evident fact. That violence is among that equation, I deplore it, whatever the form and delivery system.
DD
Let me end in this thread with a poem from Rexroth, who I've been rereading the past few weeks.....written in the smoke of post WW2> Don't think anyone will read it, so I'll post it in full. That these words exist are enough, like a forgotten flower on the sill.
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THOU SHALT NOT KILL
A Memorial for Dylan Thomas
I
They are murdering all the young men.
For half a century now, every day,
They have hunted them down and killed them.
They are killing them now.
At this minute, all over the world,
They are killing the young men.
They know ten thousand ways to kill them.
Every year they invent new ones.
In the jungles of Africa,
In the marshes of Asia,
In the deserts of Asia,
In the slave pens of Siberia,
In the slums of Europe,
In the nightclubs of America,
The murderers are at work.
They are stoning Stephen,
They are casting him forth from every city in the world.
Under the Welcome sign,
Under the Rotary emblem,
On the highway in the suburbs,
His body lies under the hurling stones.
He was full of faith and power.
He did great wonders among the people.
They could not stand against his wisdom.
They could not bear the spirit with which he spoke.
He cried out in the name
Of the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness.
They were cut to the heart.
They gnashed against him with their teeth.
They cried out with a loud voice.
They stopped their ears.
They ran on him with one accord.
They cast him out of the city and stoned him.
The witnesses laid down their clothes
At the feet of a man whose name was your name �
You.
You are the murderer.
You are killing the young men.
You are broiling Lawrence on his gridiron.
When you demanded he divulge
The hidden treasures of the spirit,
He showed you the poor.
You set your heart against him.
You seized him and bound him with rage.
You roasted him on a slow fire.
His fat dripped and spurted in the flame.
The smell was sweet to your nose.
He cried out,
�I am cooked on this side,
Turn me over and eat,
You
Eat of my flesh.�
You are murdering the young men.
You are shooting Sebastian with arrows.
He kept the faithful steadfast under persecution.
First you shot him with arrows.
Then you beat him with rods.
Then you threw him in a sewer.
You fear nothing more than courage.
You who turn away your eyes
At the bravery of the young men.
You,
The hyena with polished face and bow tie,
In the office of a billion dollar
Corporation devoted to service;
The vulture dripping with carrion,
Carefully and carelessly robed in imported tweeds,
Lecturing on the Age of Abundance;
The jackal in double-breasted gabardine,
Barking by remote control,
In the United Nations;
The vampire bat seated at the couch head,
Notebook in hand, toying with his decerebrator;
The autonomous, ambulatory cancer,
The Superego in a thousand uniforms;
You, the finger man of behemoth,
The murderer of the young men.
II
What happened to Robinson,
Who used to stagger down Eighth Street,
Dizzy with solitary gin?
Where is Masters, who crouched in
His law office for ruinous decades?
Where is Leonard who thought he was
A locomotive? And Lindsay,
Wise as a dove, innocent
As a serpent, where is he?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
What became of Jim Oppenheim?
Lola Ridge alone in an
Icy furnished room? Orrick Johns,
Hopping into the surf on his
One leg? Elinor Wylie
Who leaped like Kierkegaard?
Sara Teasdale, where is she?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
Where is George Sterling, that tame fawn?
Phelps Putnam who stole away?
Jack Wheelwright who couldn�t cross the bridge?
Donald Evans with his cane and
Monocle, where is he?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
John Gould Fletcher who could not
Unbreak his powerful heart?
Bodenheim butchered in stinking
Squalor? Edna Millay who took
Her last straight whiskey? Genevieve
Who loved so much; where is she?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
Harry who didn�t care at all?
Hart who went back to the sea?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
Where is Sol Funaroff?
What happened to Potamkin?
Isidor Schneider? Claude McKay?
Countee Cullen? Clarence Weinstock?
Who animates their corpses today?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
Where is Ezra, that noisy man?
Where is Larsson whose poems were prayers?
Where is Charles Snider, that gentle
Bitter boy? Carnevali,
What became of him?
Carol who was so beautiful, where is she?
Timor mortis conturbat me.
III
Was their end noble and tragic,
Like the mask of a tyrant?
Like Agamemnon�s secret golden face?
Indeed it was not. Up all night
In the fo�c�sle, bemused and beaten,
Bleeding at the rectum, in his
Pocket a review by the one
Colleague he respected, �If he
Really means what these poems
Pretend to say, he has only
One way out �.� Into the
Hot acrid Caribbean sun,
Into the acrid, transparent,
Smoky sea. Or another, lice in his
Armpits and crotch, garbage littered
On the floor, gray greasy rags on
The bed. �I killed them because they
Were dirty, stinking Communists.
I should get a medal.� Again,
Another, Simenon foretold
His end at a glance. �I dare you
To pull the trigger.� She shut her eyes
And spilled gin over her dress.
The pistol wobbled in his hand.
It took them hours to die.
Another threw herself downstairs,
And broke her back. It took her years.
Two put their heads under water
In the bath and filled their lungs.
Another threw himself under
The traffic of a crowded bridge.
Another, drunk, jumped from a
Balcony and broke her neck.
Another soaked herself in
Gasoline and ran blazing
Into the street and lived on
In custody. One made love
Only once with a beggar woman.
He died years later of syphilis
Of the brain and spine. Fifteen
Years of pain and poverty,
While his mind leaked away.
One tried three times in twenty years
To drown himself. The last time
He succeeded. One turned on the gas
When she had no more food, no more
Money, and only half a lung.
One went up to Harlem, took on
Thirty men, came home and
Cut her throat. One sat up all night
Talking to H.L. Mencken and
Drowned himself in the morning.
How many stopped writing at thirty?
How many went to work for Time?
How many died of prefrontal
Lobotomies in the Communist Party?
How many are lost in the back wards
Of provincial madhouses?
How many on the advice of
Their psychoanalysts, decided
A business career was best after all?
How many are hopeless alcoholics?
Ren� Crevel!
Jacques Rigaud!
Antonin Artaud!
Mayakofsky!
Essenin!
Robert Desnos!
Saint Pol Roux!
Max Jacob!
All over the world
The same disembodied hand
Strikes us down.
Here is a mountain of death.
A hill of heads like the Khans piled up.
The first-born of a century
Slaughtered by Herod.
Three generations of infants
Stuffed down the maw of Moloch.
IV
He is dead.
The bird of Rhiannon.
He is dead.
In the winter of the heart.
He is Dead.
In the canyons of death,
They found him dumb at last,
In the blizzard of lies.
He never spoke again.
He died.
He is dead.
In their antiseptic hands,
He is dead.
The little spellbinder of Cader Idris.
He is dead.
The sparrow of Cardiff.
He is dead.
The canary of Swansea.
Who killed him?
Who killed the bright-headed bird?
You did, you son of a bitch.
You drowned him in your cocktail brain.
He fell down and died in your synthetic heart.
You killed him,
Oppenheimer the Million-Killer,
You killed him,
Einstein the Gray Eminence.
You killed him,
Havanahavana, with your Nobel Prize.
You killed him, General,
Through the proper channels.
You strangled him, Le Mouton,
With your mains �tendues.
He confessed in open court to a pince-nezed skull.
You shot him in the back of the head
As he stumbled in the last cellar.
You killed him,
Benign Lady on the postage stamp.
He was found dead at a Liberal Weekly luncheon.
He was found dead on the cutting room floor.
He was found dead at a Time policy conference.
Henry Luce killed him with a telegram to the Pope.
Mademoiselle strangled him with a padded brassiere.
Old Possum sprinkled him with a tea ball.
After the wolves were done, the vaticides
Crawled off with his bowels to their classrooms and quarterlies.
When the news came over the radio
You personally rose up shouting, �Give us Barabbas!�
In your lonely crowd you swept over him.
Your custom-built brogans and your ballet slippers
Pummeled him to death in the gritty street.
You hit him with an album of Hindemith.
You stabbed him with stainless steel by Isamu Noguchi,
He is dead.
He is Dead.
Like Ignacio the bullfighter,
At four o�clock in the afternoon.
At precisely four o�clock.
I too do not want to hear it.
I too do not want to know it.
I want to run into the street,
Shouting, �Remember Vanzetti!�
I want to pour gasoline down your chimneys.
I want to blow up your galleries.
I want to bum down your editorial offices.
I want to slit the bellies of your frigid women.
I want to sink your sailboats and launches.
I want to strangle your children at their finger paintings.
I want to poison your Afghans and poodles.
He is dead, the little drunken cherub.
He is dead,
The effulgent tub thumper.
He is Dead.
The ever living birds are not singing
To the head of Bran.
The sea birds are still
Over Bardsey of Ten Thousand Saints.
The underground men are not singing
On their way to work.
There is a smell of blood
In the smell of the turf smoke.
They have struck him down,
The son of David ap Gwilym.
They have murdered him,
The Baby of Taliessin.
There he lies dead,
By the Iceberg of the United Nations.
There he lies sandbagged,
At the foot of the Statue of Liberty.
The Gulf Stream smells of blood
As it breaks on the sand of Iona
And the blue rocks of Canarvon.
And all the birds of the deep sea rise up
Over the luxury liners and scream,
�You killed him! You killed him.
In your God damned Brooks Brothers suit,
You son of a bitch.� |
DD |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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[quote="ddeubel"]
| Quote: |
| And what do you say of the chlorine bomber boys? Nothing! I thought so. |
Nothing means exactly that. Nothing. Not good or bad.
The Hammer says: Bad! Definitely bad! Bombs and chlorine are not good for men, women, or children. Yet you say... "NOTHING. Not good or bad." What in the hell is that?
If the Americans dropped a chlorine bomb on Iraqi civilians I bet you would rip your hair out. If the insurgents do it you say, "Not good or bad." Why is that?
But for your misunderstanding sake, I will say something.
Yes, I have been known to misunderstand many things. What is it that you think I am misunderstanding this time?
My only reflection on the whole mess is that I will always believe that, in war, those that are nearest their own homes/houses are always closest to the truth/right.
Therefore, you are not very close to the truth. Is that what you are saying?
This is the only self evident fact. That violence is among that equation, I deplore it, whatever the form and delivery system.
Liar. It seems to me that you only condemn Americans. Am I wrong on this point?
DD |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| The Hammer wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Hammer wrote: |
I the US were using chlorine bombs many people would be all up in arms over it screaming,"Chemical Weapons! Chemical Weapons! War Crimes! Oh the inhumanity!"
Terrorists do it and there is nothing except a dumbfounded... Huh, Chlorine? That's for pools right? Awesome. |
But you're not suggesting the US should just dump chemical weapons indiscriminately on whole neighborhoods? |
No, I am pointing out the blind eye that many people have with respect to the savagery of the terrorists. |
The lack of condemnation for insurgents in Iraq is equivalent to the lack of condemnation for hornets stinging one's friend who unwisely decided he was going to take out the nest one day with his stick. "Ow! Ow! Why are you telling me to give up, why don't you say anything bad about the hornets?" Doesn't mean that the person telling him to give up is secretly a big hornet fan and wishes they would take over the world. |
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