Korean Job Discussion Forums

[glass23]

Well, ESS is advertising here on Dave's again. http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=22119
It only took them one sentence before they lied in the job ad: "never worry about late-payments or unfair employment practices." Then they followed it with another lie: "We ALWAYS honor our contract."

I wouldn't trade that promise for a bucket of warm spit!

[The Den]

Seeing as how I worked at ESS for a year in 1997-98 I figure I should add my 2 cents. I am sorry to hear that it has gone downhill the way it has. I cannot say I am all that surprised though. Ted was kind of in the background when I was there. He had a mentor, a Mr. Han, who was always with him. All the other foreign teachers used to joke about the nature of their relationship. Ted struck me as being an arrogant *beep*.

When I was there the top dog was Kim Young Gon. I understand he has been retired for a number of years. There was also Kim Dae Min who ran the children's program and then there was the owner Mr. Kim Dae Chul(Ted's father) who I had the pleasure of meeting a couple of times when they took the entire staff out for a nice lunch. He spoke good English and struck me as being an honourable person.

I had a positive experience at ESS. I was always paid on time and received every penny I earned including severance. I was always supplied with the paper work concerning my pay and deductions were accurate. Although the paper work was in Korean I still received it without having to ask for it. The accounting lady that worked in the cubicle upstairs always had everything squared away. I do not remember her name.

I was on staff when the school moved to its current location. I remember packing up my stuff to get it moved over. It was the end of November. Although working there was good we always found something to bitch about like everywhere else in the world. The teacher's room was too small, the copier never worked, we had those tiny little lockers, etc. Then IMF hit and the panic started.

The housing was adequate and we did pay rent. However it was worked out and I did not have a problem paying it. (I can't rememeber the details) I lived in Young Do and really enjoyed it. Sure the morning bus ride was crappy but I used my afternoons to go to the gym and do private lessons. I was always busy and I only went home on Thursday afternoons to catch up on sleep. The split shifts were a bitch and I have bad memories of getting up at 5:00 in the moring after not getting home until 10:00 pm. Oh well I got through it and it made me the person I am today. I feel strongly that adversity builds character and the ability to overcome hardship is an underated quality.

When the IMF crisis hit ESS even paid us extra money to offset the devalued Korean Won. Many of us had financial commitments back home and could not have made it on the salary we were being paid. ESS also always looked the other way when it came to privates. I remember going to Dong ah university hospital to teach a group of doctors. I also did lots of other privates when I was there.

So while I am sorry ESS has gone downhill to the point it has I still treasure the memories of working there and the fun I had and the friends I made. The students were great and very nice people. Even Captain Choi who I had for a few months always had something insightful to say. I have/had a lot of respect for him. He was almost 80 when I knew him and that was almost ten years ago ( I can do math).

One last thing, I got married in August 1998 to my Korean girlfriend. Kim Young Kon came to the wedding and ESS sent a big floral arrangement. They sure did not have to do that. Plus, Kim Young Kon even talked to my father in law and told him what a stand up guy he was getting as a son in-law.

Waygug, who are you and when did you teach at ESS? Do you know me? Send me a PM.

[glass23]

Hi, the Den. It was interesting to hear what you had to say about ESS in the old days. I think what people need to be aware of now is that Ted and his big brother, Jae Il, are the ones running the school now and those ESS staff members you spoke well of are pretty much all gone now. And to quote yourself, you did say, "Ted struck me as being an arrogant *beep*." That's what the current teachers at ESS and the teachers looking for a job right now need to keep in mind. By the way, what you said about privates didn't apply when I was working at ESS. Ted made it very clear to me that it was illegal for me to teach privates. But he didn't hesitate to call up several of ESS's former teachers who were working at other instituions in Busan at the time to ask them to teach under-the-table and part-time for him when he needed some extra help. Dare I say hypocrite!

I first blacklisted ESS on this Web site over two years ago. I remember "The Den" responded to my post then in a similar way he has now. I remember he said the computers he was using there back in 97/98 was probably the same ones we were using in 2004. There hadn't been any updates. The moderators on this Web site were still under the illusion at the time that ESS was a good hagwon because word hadn't gotten out about them, so they deleted my post from back then and The Den's response to it. I tried to see if I had it stored on my computer and I couldn't find it. However, I found a response he made to someone way back in 2003. It's no longer on this Web site. Here is a quote of what The Den wrote then. He didn't have a very high opinion of Ted then either.

The Den
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject:
Hi, I worked at ESS in 97/98. It was a pretty good job. The splits are brutal but on the other hand it allows you time to do stuff in the afternoon in Nampo dong. ALso it is right downtown so it is easy to access. I found most of the students there to be hardworking individuals although I did run into one or two prix. I understand the owner passed away a couple of years ago. His son runs the business now. Ted is his name. He was not much of a manager when I was there. Also there was always this other guy named Mr. Han hanging around with him. It was kind of weird. Anyway I could tell you lots of ESS stories. The teacher's room was just one of the many stories. I was among the first staff to work in their present location. Before they used to be in a bank building up the street by the American Consulate. Anyway when we were in the old building the ECO program had their own spacious airconditioned room. When we moved to the new building they shafted us and gave us the smallest room with tiny little lockers. I used to use two of them to store my stuff.

I had a positive experience with these guys but not everyone has. If you are willing to toe the line and do what is asked such as be well prepared, not late for work, not causing trouble generally be a good employee you should have no problem. I do know of people who have done midnight runs. I did have a couple of crappy roomates. The apartments in Young-do are tiny and it was about a half hour bus ride to work in the morning. I guess after reading all this you may not want to take the job."
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Also, I found this old post that was posted on Dave's Job Information Journals at the time. I don't think it was posted by the Den as far as I know. It does, however, mention ESS.

"Beware Underpaying Hagwons/Tightwads-Busan

I've taught in Korea for four years now and never have I seen so many tightwads and underpaying institutes as I have in Busan, South Korea. Watch out for institutes like Directenglish.com, ESS, and Little Campus, who intimidate foreigners into thinking they should just accept any salary or housing they're given and be submissive to their authoritarian regimes. We who've worked here longer, the veterans, know that better institutes with higher paying wages and housing exist out there, but the Koreans at some institutes in Busan are trying to underbid and scrounge on paying more than they think they should, and that by finding some suckers overseas. They're paying less, providing worse lodgings, and requiring more work hours than the norm. Some are even charging rent!!

On no exception should you have to pay rent. This is the catch-all for teaching English in Korea, and the Koreans are trying to play like Japan and Taiwan. Beware of this national pension plan thing, security deposits, and all that crap. It's a bunch of bull that the employers are trying to throw at us to keep from having to spend a little extra. And lastly, beware of the wages and housing. 1.8 is not enough. Request at least 1.9-2.0. As for housing, beware of these cheap and crappy studios, or "villa's" as they're called here, which barely leave you enough room to roll over in your sleep and wish you were dead. Request to see your lodgings beforehand.

If we all don't stand up and unite, teaching English in Korea might as well be dead too.

Robert('The Voice')
September 1st, 2002
[email protected]
Chicago, USA

Posted: August 31, 2002"
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By the way, I noticed that one of ESS's current teachers has a Web site. She has been posting about her experiences at ESS. Here are some of the things she has had to say:

http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/South-Korea/Busan---Gyeongju/Busan/blog-96190.html
[About my apartment] The window in my room looks out directly upon to a wall so really feels a little lika a box with a small ventilation hole in it. Rubbish for when you need to get out of bed at 6am as there's no natural light

http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/South-Korea/Busan/blog-99640.html
Things I hate. There is a total absence of any natural light. Yes there is a window but there is a building only one foot away so I feel a little like I'm living in a box ('I'm living in a box, I'm living in a cardboard box......ahem sorry). And I used to moan about the Armley view of red brick terraces and wheelie bins....which swiftly brings me on to my next point..

The garbage sysytem. In England when you have food rubbish that is inevitably going to stink you put it in the wheelie bin outside (or try to, students seem to have difficulty grasping this). In my apartment block there are no outside bins. 70% of Korea is mountainous so they don't have any room for landfill sights so they try to recycle their garbage. This is very commendable but aargh it drives me crazy. My apartment is one room but somehow I have to manage sorting and storing my garbage into plastic, cans, paper and other food waste. Because the garbage is in my house and stinking I have
Oh Lord..
..please grant me safe passage until 8am...and if possible can I hang on to this hat?..sorry, that was a prayer too far, not even God can keep hats on my head...to rinse everything that could potentially smell like yoghurt pots, milk cartons etc. That's not too bad, I can cope with that.
What I really hate is the red bucket that I must use for food garbage. All garbage goes into a bucket with a sieve inside and a lid. This stays inside your home until the designated day for food garbage. For some reason for the past two times I've taken it outside an ajumma (old married woman) brings it back to my apartment and makes me put it back inside. I cannot describe to you how bad this bucket smells and the collection of flies festering in filth in there increase daily. I must be doing something wrong but I don't know what- it drives me crazy- my house stinks of garbage- aaarrgghh!

Plus my apartment is about as far as you can get from the good places in town(and my new found friends) so costs me a fortune in taxi fares. Boo.

Hmm, think somebody may be experiencing a little culture shock......

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http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/South-Korea/Busan---Gyeongju/Busan/blog-90032.html
In the UK 8 hours sleep a night was normal and kept me my happy jovial little self- here I'm lucky if I scrape 5 hours and it's always broken. The hours of this job are so different to what I'm used to. I teach 7am-12 noon then have all afternoon off til 7-9pm. 'Cool' I think, all afternoon off to shop, eat, read, bloggity blog blog.... However by the time I finish my last class at 9pm I'm wide awake- I'm a night owl, I come awake at nighttime so trying to persuade my body that it needs to relax and get some kip in is proving problematic. I've tried it all- hot showers, exercise during the day, camomile tea, reading a book, red wine (the 1 pound screw top variety) all to no avail.
Its hard to regulate my mood and look on the bright side when I'm so flippin tired all the time, things are getting on top of me more than they would back home- add to that the obvious effects of culture shock and yeah, at times it's a struggle.

[The Den]

Here is a suggestion. Why don't yopu put all the energy you are using to dredge up old posts and quotes and everything else you can find inot finding a good job and just moving on. So ted was mean to you and ripped you off, get over it already!!

[glass23]

It's not so much work digging up old posts. I've got them organized on my computer. And, I didn't mind doing it.

Don't worry about me. I've moved on. I'm just doing what I can to fight corruption, fight the noble fight, you know all that. If I were one of the current teachers at ESS, then I would want to know what I know. And if I were looking for a job right now and read ESS's current job ad on this Web site, then I would want to know what I know.

You really shouldn't criticize someone for doing a good thing and exposing corruption. I guess you're not much of a Don Quixote fan? Thank you for your concern though and Happy New Year.

[happyspraffer]

Hey,

I notice that my blog address has been used to fuel the argument against ESS that has been waged on the internet for the past 3 years...

Here is what I have to say on the matter.....



A good way to check out a school in Korea is to google its name to see what comes up. When I googled ESS before I left I saw all the rubbish that had been posted about it and I also saw other teachers posts supporting ESS. I didn't want to get dragged into the debate but unfortunately I didn't have a choice in the matter, so for the record, here's my two penneth worth...

I am thoroughly enjoying my time working at ESS and so far this has been the most positive experience of my life. Admittedly my apartment doesn't have any natural light which isn't ideal but find me somebody who has a perfect apartment in Korea and I'll give you a medal. It's 10 minutes walk from downtown which is perfect, I'm in Nampodong in the blink of an eye and can easily come home to rest in the day.The comments taken out of context were my grumbings about the garbage system. Quite how ESS is responsible for my inability to work out the Korean garbage system is beyond me...at the end of the post I wrote..'I think I may be experiencing a little culture shock' which was perfectly true.

I also moaned about the schedule in one of my earlier posts, this was merely a period of adjustment, believe me it does take some time getting used to a 7am start and I have my bad days but on the plus side I have never had so much productive free time as in my 7 hours off in the afternoon. I cook, read, go to the gym, everything I never did in the UK as after 6pm was 'relaxing' time in my book. Also, I signed a contract agreeing to this schedule, I wasn't conned into it, I signed in full knowledge that it was a 7am start so I haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining. Believe me, if I hated the schedule that much I would have left by now.

ESS have treated me very fairly so far and I have an excellent working relationship with Ted. When I initially complained about my apartment he gave me the option to move to another apartment in Beomnagel. After consideration I refused his offer as I love the fact my apartment is so close and it feels like home now. I am always paid on time, I was well looked after when I was sick and I have all the support I should need both from Ted and all of the staff at ESS.

I like ESS so much that I am even considering extending my contract a couple of months and I often joke with Ted that he hasn't seen the last of me yet and that I'll come back in a few years time. One of my co-workers is actually working her second contract at ESS and said that upon deciding to return to Korea she wouldn't have considered working anywhere else. Does ESS sound so bad now?!


I understand your experience may have been a whole lot different from mine, I'm not one to comment about what went on in the past but from my own experience ESS is a good school that is treating me well.

I haven't been asked to say this, I'm not saying this to please Ted and I would have kept well out of this whole furore if my words hadn't been used as ammunition against ESS.

[Homer]

glass23,

Read the post above.....looks like your noble fight aint so noble afterall.


This is a great example of why bashes against schools on here should always be taken with a giant grain of salt....you never quite know who you are reading and where their information comes from. This includes the post above mine even if the author makes sense and has done a good job of explaining his previous complaints.

He makes valid points about many things (ex: how is the school responsible for a teacher not figuring out the garbage system??)...

My first school (an ECC) was a very good place to work at for a newbie. Yet, a former teacher who had been fired (he was a drunk and missed work all the time) went online and bashed the school left, right and centre...his rant was bought hook, line and sinker and one co-worker who posted to refute the drunk was lambasted as a liar....

There are many bad schools out there...but there are also many stupid teachers...

[glass23]

I really wish I could have responded to this drivel earlier but I was enjoying my vacation.

Happyspraffer wrote:

[Corky]

Relaxing vacation?

[oskinny1]

Mr. Glass (first name George?),

If you were to read many posts on my blog you would read about lots of issues I have with my school, flat, and bosses. When I first got here a hated where my flat was located, but after being here for awhile I started to see its benefits. I had the chance to move and I declined.

There are so many little small things about my school that drive me crazy. Do I complain about it on the Internet? Certainly. Do I want to go to another school? Definitely not!

People do change, and just because you read something doesn't mean you know how they think. If you read my blog you'd think I was miserable here and ready to off myself. People need to vent (obviously you know this after reading your previous posts).

Stop getting so personal with people and criticizing them. If you disagree, make your point and move on (calling someone stupid is not making your point).

Happyspraffer wrote about "rubbish" and "penneth". I will assume that you know there are other forms of English other than that of the North American variety (should I not assume this?). I don't think she was saying that it was worthless, but that it was negative. She also said she read positive posts about the school.

Judging by your own criteria of what is credible, why would you even come to Korea? After all, I am sure that you heard or read of criticisms about working in Korea, why wouldn't you just refuse to go?

You are writing with too much emotion, try and be a bit more objective.

Just my two penneth worth!

[glass23]

[Buddhabelly]

Let me assure glass23 that there are quite a few other ex-teachers who know and despise that weasel in charge of ESS just as much as you, but you apparently are not fully in tune with the very important fact that kicking KTK and his "school" now is very much like kicking a proverbial "dead dog."

Due to Ted's mismanagement and the rival hagwon that has been operating now for a few years directly across the street from ESS. it has fallen to a level which assures it of being a second-tier institute for the forseeable future.

We have 4 different posters who can verify the nosedive ESS has gone through ever since the elder Kim's death in 1999. The Den worked there during the IMF crisis, yours truly during KTK's first couple of years at the helm, you a year ot two after me and we have a lady who currently works there. If we compare the average number of students and satisfied teachers during each of our tenures it will be a very telling tale of how ESS is now small fries and not even worth stressing over.

[Buddhabelly]

At the risk of coming off as hypocritical since my previous posting urges glass23 to cool it on the anti-ESS venom, two recent events have left me no choice to fume again in public.

The first has to do with a slanderous PM accusing me of being drugged while an ESS employee and sent to me by someone who through the types of errors contained in his or her writing is sure to be Korean and barely reaching intermediate level in English. This individual has posted under a female username (though it may very well be a male) on the first page of this thread and is surely a KTK crony (though from knowing Ted and his writing style I know it is not his direct scribing).


Apparently they believe I am the fellow who while being as straight-laced as a Mormon upon being hired by KTK to be the head native teacher, inevitably turned to potent legal and illicit substances within a couple of months of being on the job , and eventually went on a permanent emergency leave. Actually the fact that I never imbibed once either before or during a teaching shift at that job will always serve as a proof of my inner strength and professionalism because if there was ever a time to get you-know-what up, it was while working in ESS!

The other issue has to do with the gal from Leeds currently working for KTK (she has posted earlier on this page). Why is she reluctant to allow a post on her blog which briefly details the very serious and sometimes illicit mismanagement of ESS by Ted during his early ears at the helm? In my opinion all that explains why he is at least pretending to be on his best behavior nowadays (since otherwise he will be shut down by the labor office).

Trust me glass23; the stuff you went through or nag about is tame compared to what went down during those dark days and that was also mentioned on the attempted posting on her blog.


I cannot help but think there is something immensely poetic about a gal who has the moniker of midget (no joke....you can check it out on her blog if you like) becoming the pet employee of a boss nicknamed the weasel by his previous workers.

[glass23]

Budhabelly, as for the lady British teacher currently teaching at ESS, she's obviously a company stooge.

Further, regarding the person who sent you a slanderous palm, I got two libelous palms from her. She admitted to me in one of them that she is one of the Korean teachers at ESS. I wrote her back and told her that her time would be better served working on her English than trying to control my behavior. Don�t let this Korean ESS teacher get to you. She�s not even worth wasting your hate on.

I heard the story about the former ESS head teacher who did hard drugs and got fired and I know that you and he are not the same person. When I posted in the first post in this thread about the management entrusting power to people they should not have and showing horrible judgment in who they entrusted with power, this was one of the incidents I was referring to.

Budhabelly wrote:

[phic11]

you were right to quit this jerkoff. Better jobs everywhere.