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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| steveevets wrote: |
If you can't detect the difference in tone of voice when Obama spoke at that southern black Baptist church the other day, then you're tone deaf or just willfully ignorant. |
Wow. Such a woeful lack of reading comprehension on your part. Do you actually read my posts before responding? Please show we were I ever said I couldn't "detect the difference in tone of voice."
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| When Bush used Spanish, he didn't attempt to convey a stereotypic dialect. Wanting his mostly Hispanic audience to know he understands Spanish (and Mexican customs, I might add, as with his brother Jeb, who is married to a Hispanic) |
But he doesn't understand Spanish. The clip I provided shows that. And I somehow doubt Mexican customs have been imparted to the Bush household. Or is calling them the "little brown ones" a Mexican term of endearment? His whole Spanish act is pandering, plain and simple. He was stereotyping Latinos as Spanish speakers. Something that many Latinos would take offense at. Not that I'd ever be so PC as to argue that it's offensive. But PCSteve might, if he wasn't so two-faced.
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| And by insisting that only a few black conservatives would object to this essentializing makes you a cultural outsider and perhaps a bigot. |
Of course I'm a cultural outsider, as are you. I never claimed to be an insider, unlike you and your attempts to speak black. You still can't produce any evidence to support your argument. So I guess it's time for you to go to the ad hominem again.
BTW, here's the one columnist's comments:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/284499,CST-NWS-mitch06.article
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| Just as some Obama supporters evoked the image of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. during Obama's visit to Brown Chapel AME Church, the Rev. Al Sharpton gave Hillary Rodham Clinton similar props. |
Looking through several other black columnists, I can't find a single one who derides Obama or Clinton for their speeches. They don't even mention that it's an issue with some people. Obviously, it's an issue created and propagated by the white conservative media.
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| By the way, I guess you must be a sock for ta-ta boy and mindmetoo. That's o.k., none of you can sustain an argument but if you put your heads together you just might be able to mount one (or at least one another). |
Anyone with a 5th grade education could tell that Ya-Ta, mindmetoo, and myself are completely different writers.
BTW, here's the biased Fox report on their appearances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmIGA4vV-3U
mindmetoo's assessment is correct. Hillary only pulled out the accent for the quote. And received rousing applause for it. Didn't look like offended black people to me.
Offended black people look something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJHzjIDAIVw
(BTW, PCSteve might notice that Bush has pandered to the NAACP by bring an all-black contingent of Secret Service agents.) |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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CocoaPuffDaddy:
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| Of course I'm a cultural outsider, as are you. I never claimed to be an insider, unlike you and your attempts to speak black. You still can't produce any evidence to support your argument. So I guess it's time for you to go to the ad hominem again. |
Shows what you know. Ever read Edward Hall or other cross-cultural researchers? I consider myself an insider-outsider in the African American subculture. There's a distinction to be drawn which obviously you're not aware of.
And for someone who's concerned about reading comprehension, where did I mention that I've tried to speak black. And just what does one need to do to speak black? Pretty ignorant, dude (that's an ad hominem attack to satisfy your expectation).
Bush has had a very strong personal working relationship with Vicente Fox in the past and this is well documented. So is the fact that he garnered a strong showing among Hispanics in Texas. Bush didn't try to speak like Speedy Gonzales when he used Spanish. But Obama and Clinton sounded like cartoon figures at times in their speeches. That's the difference and if you can't see it, tough turds.
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| Anyone with a 5th grade education could tell that Ya-Ta, mindmetoo, and myself are completely different writers. |
No, really? I was being sarcastic. But you're right about one thing: anyone with a 5th grade education could understand your arguments. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| PCsteve wrote: |
| But Obama and Clinton sounded like cartoon figures at times in their speeches. That's the difference and if you can't see it, tough turds. |
No, I can't see it (or hear it for that matter). And based upon every report I've read of the event, noone else sees it either. Except for a few right wing bloggers and Fox news. I'm still waiting for you to back your claim that mainstream blacks found it offensive.
There are two possible answers to your POV:
1) You actually believe it, in which case you're as PC as they come. And just as hypocritical as you accuse the left of being.
2) You're not serious, and you're just a sock-troll trying to attack Democrats for any reason you can grasp at.
Either way, you're not worth my time. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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NEWSFLASH:
The silly Amos and Andy routine was covered in a special news segment by Jeannie Moo on CNN International and CNN last week. Visit their websites. So much for bashing FOX News again.
GruffDaddy: many blacks, especially in the public eye, refrain from commenting for fear of being labeled Uncle Toms. Even Bill Cosby got a dose of that after some criticism of his own race despite years of giving away millions to historically black colleges. And black radio hosts still discuss it with guests. Moreover, Shelby Steele and John McWhorter, both black conservative think tankers (the former also affiliated with the Hoover Institute at Stanford and the latter a former professor at UC-Berkeley, that "bastion" of right wingers) have written on the subject in the past.
You're being dismissive because you're ideology makes you incapable of seeing it. As for me being PC, even a casual glance at my threads clearly indicates otherwise. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PCsteve wrote: |
NEWSFLASH:
The silly Amos and Andy routine was covered in a special news segment by Jeannie Moo on CNN International and CNN last week. Visit their websites. So much for bashing FOX News again. |
Cite? I have yet to find any of the supposed sources that support your claim. Not that you'd misrepresent them or anything. Heavens no.
And I see it's now an "Amos and Andy routine." Wow, pulling out the full arsenal of derogatory stereotypes. You can't go much lower, and you've still got 20 months left before the election. Although I wouldn't put it past you to start calling Obama a closet Klansman.
BTW, from the latest issue of the Defender (which you, as an "insider-outsider", will surely be familiar with):
http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/national.cfm?ArticleID=8722
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University of Maryland Political Scientist Ron Walters says the more that African-Americans hear Obama, the more they like him, dispelling early questions of whether he was "Black enough".
"He's reaching out, I think, being at the right places," says Walters. "People were doubting at first because everything they heard about him was Hawaii (his birthplace) and Indonesia (his mother's home, where he spent part of his childhood), etcetera. But, now, he's beginning to roll out his record, I think that makes a difference."
As of last weekend, that record included a key note speech Sunday morning by Obama at the historical Brown Chapel AME Church in Selma, Ala. as part of a service to commemorate "Bloody Sunday," when African-Americans were beaten during a voting rights march from Selma to Montgomery more than 40 years ago. |
Nothing about the accent, much less pandering.
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| You're being dismissive because you're ideology makes you incapable of seeing it. |
Uh-uh. Sure. Unlike you and your clear headed, objective point of view. 
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| As for me being PC, even a casual glance at my threads clearly indicates otherwise. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid. |
A casual glance proves the alternative though. You're clearly a troll. More intent on trying to provoke a fight than discussing issues. You're only existence is based upon trying to create an artificial dichotomy between left and right. The sad fact is, you're more predictable and one-sided than the people you attempt to pigeonhole are. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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huffdaddy:
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| A casual glance proves the alternative though. You're clearly a troll. |
Now that's rich. I post more threads than you ever will and receive a fair number of replies. Trolls usually just cruise through making their online drive-by shootings, as it were. But of course it's so much easier to label me and be dismissive than deal with my arguments directly. You're all about character assassination. Your posts are usually reactive and superficial, sort of like your avatar now that I think about it. Hmm....
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| More intent on trying to provoke a fight than discussing issues. |
And by the way, I regularly receive PMs from posters to this board who praise my insight and attempt to provoke informed discussion, and they're not all singing from the same choirbook despite your perception to the contrary. You see, huff, there's a difference between provoking for its own sake and trying to get at an understanding of the issue.
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| You're only existence is based upon trying to create an artificial dichotomy between left and right. |
Ah, yes, I've created an ideological divide where none existed. Gee, how come so many neutral posters here are always lamenting this divide then? And this might shock you: I don't consider myself an ideologue of either side but a genuine moderate (although I admittedly lean conservative on some issues). So I have no vested interest in exacerbating that divide. Maybe you're so far gone to the Left that you confuse the center with the right. Judging from many of the posters here, though, you're just going with the traffic flow. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Trolls usually just cruise through making their online drive-by shootings, as it were. |
You are obviously unfamiliar with the history of trolling on the internet.
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| But of course it's so much easier to label me and be dismissive than deal with my arguments directly. You're all about character assassination. Your posts are usually reactive and superficial, sort of like your avatar now that I think about it. Hmm.... |
How ironic is that coming from an entire post that attempts to assassinate me and ignores the issues. Once again. Case and point: So where are those links that show how upset blacks were by Obama's "pandering" speech? We're still waiting.
Case and point #2: what happened to you in this thread? As soon as the topic turned back to the issues, you disappeared.
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| Ah, yes, I've created an ideological divide where none existed. Gee, how come so many neutral posters here are always lamenting this divide then? |
The divide I speak of is not ideological, but rather your "belief" that somehow the right is truer and more genuine than the left. That hypocrisy and "pandering" are sole domains of the left. That other's views can be sterotyped while yours cannot.
Case and point:
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| But I ask you: what conservative would try to assume such a voice? No, for this kind of tomfoolery, this elitist charade, you must turn to the liberals. One might not like the conservatives or what they advocate, but at least when they speak, they speak as themselves. |
BTW, here's some more pointless partisan bashing from steveo:
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| C'mon, leftists and other anti-American, anti-Bush posters, let's see you justify Hugo's hypocrisy on this score |
In short, your the worst kind of hypocrite. The kind who constantly plays the hypocrite card while ignoring his own hypocrisy. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Arguing with you is like arguing with a puppet. No, I take that back. At least the puppet knows when to be quiet. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Arguing with you is like arguing with a puppet. No, I take that back. At least the puppet knows when to be quiet. |
Lame comeback to a bad beat, stevieboy. You're a joke! |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Arguing with you is like arguing with a puppet. No, I take that back. At least the puppet knows when to be quiet. |
Lame comeback to a bad beat, stevieboy. You're a joke! |
Uh oh, now you've upset the ventriloquist. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Arguing with you is like arguing with a puppet. No, I take that back. At least the puppet knows when to be quiet. |
I guess that's the opponent you need to win an argument - a puppet. Sorry steveo, I'm not your Snerd.
From Clarence Page:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0703040580mar04,0,5777285.column?coll=chi-ed_opinion_columnists-utl
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And, speaking of knowing or not knowing enough about a candidate, the conventional wisdom also has flipped in favor of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.). Remember the stories and commentaries, including my own, that questioned whether Obama was "black enough" as the son of a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya to win black votes. What, I wondered, do the speculators expect? That he should speak Ebonics and join the Crips?
Nevertheless, mainstream media reported with great surprise that polls showed Obama lagging behind the party's front-runner, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, among black voters.
As I opined at the time, this should come as a surprise only to those who expect black voters to reflexively jump behind a black candidate. Most black voters, like most other voters, are still learning who he is.
And now, lookee here: that recent Washington Post-ABC News poll. It shows Obama has more than doubled his black support--in one month!
From late January to late February, Obama's support jumped to 44 percent of black voters from 20 percent in the poll. At the same time, Clinton's black support fell to 33 percent from 60 percent. I am vindicated. |
From Jesse Jackson:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/jackson/284042,CST-EDT-jesse06.article
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| Senators Obama and Clinton spoke eloquently about the courage, dignity and discipline of the marchers. Both acknowledged that they -- or their candidacies -- were an offspring of that movement. Both reminded America that while we've come a long way, we've got a long way yet to go. Both called on a new generation -- the Joshua generation, in Obama's words -- to continue the journey. |
Hmm, nary a word about the "controversy," much less charges of "pandering." Looks like your opinions don't quite mesh with everyone elses. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| steve0 wrote: |
Citing Jesse Jackson to support your naive claim is really grasping at straws. Jackson is a politician (although he's never held office) first and foremost and Obama's his man. And he won't offend Hillary in case she gets the nomination.
Jackson's first motto is: stay in the public eye. He's a media who-re like Sharpton. Claiming he's representative of the black view or striving to be objective is just plain puppetlike, Huffy. |
First, I've posted commentary from several black columnists. While you've posted, um, nothing. As in 0. As in steve0.
Second, I thought you were an "insider-outsider."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/15/national/main1321719.shtml
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| When blacks were asked to come up with the person they considered "the most important black leader," 15 percent chose Jackson, a civil rights activist who ran for president in the 1980s, while 11 percent picked Secretary of State Rice, 8 percent chose former Secretary of State Powell, and 6 percent named Obama, a freshman Democratic senator from Illinois. |
Besides, if you can claim that Keyes represents blacks (another never-elected media whore, albeit not as successful at it as Jackson), then surely Jesse is just as qualified, if not more so, to "represent" blacks. Or are you content with your double standard? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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HuffandPuff Daddy:
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| if you can claim that Keyes represents blacks |
No, I never claimed that. You must have a reading problem. Better call RIF (Reading Is Fundamental) to schedule an overseas visit. And my point was that even if only a small percentage of blacks take umbrage at their faked accents, they should refrain from doing so. Got it now, bruddah?
See also my weblinks previous post, then go sulk with your ventriloquist. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Proof. Phbt. Who needs proof. This is what she says about Obama:
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| Obama obviously changed his speech patterns for the black church audience. It would be funny if it weren�t so silly. |
This is what I wrote earlier in the thread.
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| The attempt at a deep booming voice sounds kind of goofy. |
As far as I'm concerned silly=goofy. Thanks for the confirmation of my opinion.
Edit/Add:
From the comments section of the blog:
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#13
To be fair to Obama, he always adjusts his cadences when speaking to a black audience. He admitted as much when asked about it. He did that while in the South Side of Chicago too so it�s nothing new.
The key is not whether or not your cadence is the same in front of all audiences - no politician uses the same cadences in all situations, and every politician feeds off the energy of the particular crowd at that moment - but whether or not your performance sounds legitimate or canned. Neither Obama nor Hillary are Southerners, but Obama - who never lived in the South - came off much more authentically than Hillary, who actually spent a good portion of her life in Arkansas.
Comment by Elrod � 03.05.07 @ 10:34 am
#14
I agree with your statements totally Elrod. I do the same thing. During �working hours� I have a more �professional� sounding cadence (crisp, sharp and short); however, when not at work, I revert back to a more normal�normal for me anyway�method of speaking.
Comment by Jeff Turner � 03.05.07 @ 10:59 am |
Anyone, like yourself, who has spent time around blacks knows that almost every black person can change between "white speak" and "black speak." Maybe Obama merely goes into more colloquial speaking when he's around other blacks. Unless you know for certain otherwise, you can't really claim the accent is faked or contrived.
Last edited by huffdaddy on Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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