Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Woden]

Hello everyone I have a question regarding the criminal checks for public school positions. I have a Caution for being Drunk and Disorderly from 5 years ago as a university student and I am now applying for jobs in Korea.

On the form I am asked to fill out from the recruitment agency it says 'do you have any Convictions?', now in British Law a Caution is not a Conviction, so do you think I can say no? When the check comes back it will say a have a Caution, do you think the school/recruiter will refuse to employ me?

Would I be better to just say on the form I have a Caution for being drunk? If I say this do you think that I have any chance at all of being employed by a Public School? I have a CELTA and I am studying for an MA in Education and I have a little bit of experience teaching English, do people think there us any chance I will be given the benefit of the doubt in Korea when my qualifications are taken into account??

[polonius]

I think there is no harm in trying for a public school job, if that is what you want. If they decline you because of your past history, then you can always move on to the hagwon route. Hagwons do no criminal record check. Public schools ask you to send a letter from your home country saying that you are clear. I don't know how a caution would show up. But there is no harm in trying, right?

[Woden]

I think that is what I will do, give it a go. The thing is I definitely do not want to work for a Hagwon mainly because I want to teach and in the long run I don't think teaching in one will be beneficial to me. If I can't get a Public School job in Korea I will go to Japan.

The main attraction of the Public School are the hours and the experience of actually teaching. I am studying part-time so a Hagwon isn't really what I am looking for. I realise a drinking offence is likely to be taken seriously in Korea so if anyone knows of any dodgy education boards please let me know?

[bosintang]

[gsxr750r]

Conviction means going to court and being convicted. This is just a warning citation from a cop, right?


Gosh, this reminds me of a song....

Convict... music... and you know we up front. I see you windin' and grindin' up on that pole....

[yingwenlaoshi]

A caution, or warning, is just that. Next step would be a fine. A fine is not a conviction. That wouldn't be something you'd have to be worried about on a criminal check.

Drunk in public is less serious than a speeding ticket.

[bosintang]

I have to check my reading comprehension. I thought you said you had a caution for drinking and driving.

Don't even mention it when you apply. Drunk & Disorderly? Who isn't?!

[buymybook]

[huffdaddy]

[ilovebdt]

[Woden]

Thanks for all of your replies. I have to say I laughed at the person who asked if I had a 'drinking problem', that is the problem when you get done for it as a student, it then follows you all your life! It is a caution BUT it will show up on a police check in the UK. Recently new legislation brought in after an extremely high profile child murder means ALL cautions stay on the Police National Computer for LIFE (****!!). What the schools are looking for is called a Subject Access Check and that will list the caution.

I don't drink anymore (well, maybe once a month) and stopped smoking draw years ago (maybe some of the paranoia is still with me!).

The reasons I am wary of a Hagwon is number 1 it is a business, number 2 it cares about profit primarily, number 3 it doesn't build classroom management skills much, number 4 I will have little opportunity to build curriculum materials (I know not guarenteed to in publics either), number 5 the extra job security. Please don't launch into an attack on public schools because I know they are not perfect, but for me they have advantages over Hagwons.

As for Japan, you do not need a criminal record check to work there so would not be a problem. I actually planned to go to Japan originally but it seems jobs there are going downhill and most of the jobs I can get from UK are the big eikaiwas - I would rather not. I do have an interview with Interac on Wednesday for ALT positions which will be my fallback maybe.

One more question please...

...if I wrote on the form NO I HAVE NO CONVICTIONS and then arrived with signed contract for my orientation and showed him the police check - which will show my Caution - do you think I could get fired/Visa withdrawn??

[jay-shi]

[sock]

The form asks if you have any convictions. A "caution" is not a conviction, even if it is listed on the same page as part of your criminal record. So, no. You don't have to list it. And you don't have to worry about not being forthcoming about it. If you want to list it, nobody will even bat an eye at a non-violent, non-serious offense that happened five years ago.

Here's something that you will find out within two weeks of being in Korea: pretty much everyone is drunk and disorderly on at least a weekly basis, often times more frequently. It's part of the culture, and it's totally overlooked and seen as perfectly acceptable for men of any age. Another thing about Korean culture: everyone lies, and it's not really stigmatized as a bad, immoral practice in the same way that it is in western culture. Most Koreans would not even classify "forgetting" to list such a minor offense as a lie.

You should also understand what recruiters are looking for. They want to be able to sell you to the highest bidder for top dollar, so that means there are two important things. First, you must have a passport from one of the approved English-speaking countries. You've got that covered. Second, do you look anything like Brad Pitt? Any resemblance at all, say, if an 80-year-old man with cataracts and night blindness was looking at you from a distance of 50 meters in the twilight, could he possibly mistake you for Brad Pitt? Awesome. You're qualified to teach.

Oh, but you want to work in the public school system. Okay. Well, in that case, it doesn't matter if you have a 4-year (=3 years in the British system, I think) degree in D&D as a Dungeonmaster, paranormal studies, or plumbing, as long as you apply at the right time (ie, anytime they are desperate to find a warm body to shove in a classroom, which would be RIGHT NOW) then you're in. The recruitment agency is not going to even look at your criminal record once they see that they will be able to sell you off for top dollar. They'll be too busy peeing themselves in excitement, then doing a dance of joy with the little cartoon dollar signs popping up in their eyes.

Seriously, the fact that you have some experience, a CELTA, and are working toward a master's degree would make you eligible to teach at many universities, should you find one that for whatever reason still has a vacancy. You should have no problem getting a public school job, if that's what you want. Especially if you are willing to be further away from Seoul, but I'm sure you could even find something in Seoul right now. The demand for teachers is particularly strong at this time of year, and this year it seems to be stronger than ever.

Oh, and it's nice that you're eager to "build classroom management skills" but I wouldn't mention that or they'll send you to teach the kids that were rejected from hell by Satan himself. Just joking, kind of. 98% of the kids in Korea are awesome, but the 2% that are spoiled rich princes/princesses can come dangerously close to pushing you over the edge in a classroom consisting of you, them, and 38 of their never-before-disciplined-by-anyone-in-their-entire-lives peers.

You'll be just fine. Don't worry. Thousands of other people less qualified, less intelligent, and less prepared have lived through the experience of Korea, and came out loving it (for the most part). You can--and will-- too. Good luck!!

[Woden]

Cheers sock, that makes me feel better at least. It says on the form that I don't need to bring the check with me until I arrive in Korea, which will be after all the contracts are signed, so I suppose the recruiter at that point would just keep it to themselves any way without telling the board.

I wasn't sure how 'moral' the Korean culture was, I was dreading showing the recruiter my police check and then them saying, 'well why did you lie?', or 'we will have to tell the school, etc, etc', but I suppose it sounds like their scruples are similar to mine...open to influence (or is that under the influence?)!

I think I will do what my mum told me is always best...and that is (half-)lie.

[sock]

Last year I worked at a public elementary school. Nobody ever even mentioned a criminal background check. Schools and recruiters are pretty hit-and-miss when it comes to that "requirement."

If they only want you to submit it AFTER you're already here, after the contracts are signed, and after you have your visa then it means nobody will even look at it, just stick it in some file with copies of whatever other documents of yours they have.

Just come and don't give it to them until/unless they ask you for it specifically. Then tell them you forgot it at home and it's on its way or the local police require 30-60 days to provide that information or whatever other excuse. Stall, stall, stall. It's not a legal requirement, it's not needed to issue an E-2 visa, and there's no way they can force you to provide it, much less verify its authenticity. I guarantee within one week of the plane touching down, you'll be busy teaching and being overwhelmed by Korea, and nobody (except maybe for you) will even remember.

One thing about teaching in Korea is that the trickle of supply can never meet the ravenous appetite of demand, which means that finding a job is possible for pretty much anyone with a pulse, a passport, and sealed transcripts. Too many schools are simply desperate for a teacher. This is true in Seoul and doubly true in more remote countryside/smaller city locations.