|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Ever had Your Beliefs wobbled by something you read here? |
| Nope. |
|
96% |
[ 25 ] |
| Yup. |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 26 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Demonicat
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| A good sub-question would be: How many people now think Hinduism is balls-out goofy because of discussions on Dave's? |
*Raises hand* |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Demonicat wrote: |
| Kermo, are you talking about the Jewish/Christian belief of Gehenna? That is an interesting concept, and where the whole fire and torture idea came from. Btw, as a scholar of Hell, I can't help but share with you all and interesting trivia point. The Jewish Rabbinical texts that first mention the fiery pit say that all but the absolute worst would not be there for more than a year. It was John Milton, a poet in relatively modern times, who created the idea of eternal damnation- as well as the very image of hell itself. |
Hey there-- you're correct in pointing out that the understanding of "hell" (both the word and the concept) has changed dramatically over the centuries. Here's a summary of my recent reading on the subject of "hell" in the Bible:
The word "hell" is an English word which is used to translate the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades, gehenna, and tartaroo.
According to this website (http://www.heraldmag.org/literature/doc_16.htm) even the English word "hell" has had other connotations, mostly referring to a secret or hidden place, not a place of torment. I'll leave it to you to check out that link and look at the context in which the Hebrews write about "sheol" in the Old Testament, but it sometimes refers to a pit, destruction, a trial, in addition to literal death.
In the New Testament, we see the Greek word "hades" used in the same way as "sheol," signifying destruction. Another word, "gehenna" refers to a fiery rubbish pit outside the city walls. A living being wouldn't be cast into it, but a criminal's body might be thrown in there after execution as a final indignity. According to the website I mentioned earlier, "gehenna" refers to a Second, or final death, not a place of eternal torment. There is one more word in the Bible that is used just once, and is also translated as "hell.
The word "tartaroo" is used in this verse:
2 Pet. 2:4 "God spared not the angels who sinned, but cast [them] down to hell [tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." The word is similar to "tartarus" which refers to dark prisons in Greek mythology. It could be referring to a literal binding, or perhaps condemnation, but nevertheless it's not relevant to our fate as humans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a lazy Catholic but this board has made me only a semi-lazy Catholic.
Reading Rapier's et al anit-Catholic rants and other such crap made my admiration of the Catholic Church stronger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I instinctively voted NO without giving it proper consideration, but I should've voted YES because I've kind of switched from agnosticism to atheism. Whether it's due to atheist arguments on here I can't remember, but it probably influenced.
My former contention was that the beliefs (a) the noun 'god' has objeective reference and (b) the noun 'god' does not have objective reference both lack justification, in clear contrast to the belief that (c) there is a tree outside my office window.
My belief now is that an attempt at any explanation (be it theistic, naturalitsic or what ever) at all poses epistemological problems to the extent that we should simply give up speculating. An explanation for observed reality must itself presuppose an explanation. What is that explanation's explanation? And what is that explanation's explanation's explanation? What is the explanation for ALL these explanations? And so on. It appears to continue forever in an infinite regress and we should just quit.
Next....there's my violent hatred of religion with poisonous intensity. Communists and fascists have great ideas about religion that I support - totally crush it. This has always been my belief, however.
Last edited by SPINOZA on Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Next....there's my violent hatred of religion with poisonous intensity. Communists and fascists have great ideas about religion that I support - totally crush it. This has always been my belief, however. |
As well not being a very nice way to treat other human beings, 'crushing' doesn't seem to be particularly effective way of getting rid of religious belief. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gang ah jee wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Next....there's my violent hatred of religion with poisonous intensity. Communists and fascists have great ideas about religion that I support - totally crush it. This has always been my belief, however. |
As well not being a very nice way to treat other human beings |
Are you kidding? It's an awesome, entirely appropriate way to treat such heinous, verminous, scabrous subhumans.
| Quote: |
| , 'crushing' doesn't seem to be particularly effective way of getting rid of religious belief. |
Yeah, it's impossible to enforce belief-prohibition, but if religious states had the threat of nuclear obliteration, they'd soon start taking care of their shit, trust me. And if religious individuals, who taint the species, faced breathless pursuits away from sex-mad gorillas, they might consider the merits of world atheism.
"There is no god but the state" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Muffin
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Location: Turkey
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Don't usually join religious discussions but having a really quiet day in the office so here goes.
Kermo is right that the Bible does not endorse the idea of hellfire as it is often portrayed. Muslims also believe in a fiery hell I don't know how graphic the Quoran is in its depiction.
There are certain religions that you cannot convert to, Hinduism is one of them as is Alevism (a branch of Islam) that is practised here in Turkey.
I didn't join the poll but the chances of someone seriously being converted to anything by a message board must be quite remote. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Soooo as long as we're talking about hell...who's going to see that new movie (Jim Carey), The number 23?
Edit: Not me, read the review:
| Quote: |
Bill Muller
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 23, 2007 12:00 AM
During The Number 23, Jim Carrey is stalked by a dog. And this dog of a movie is sure to follow him around for years.
Tapping deep into his thespian skills, Carrey plays shaggy-haired dog-catcher Walter Sparrow, who starts reading a book about a man obsessed with the number 23. Walter in turn becomes obsessed and starts visiting a parallel universe where they need to turn down the stereo.
Walter's alter ego in the book is Fingerling, a pulp detective. We know this because Walter reads the story aloud, throughout the movie. With this much narration, The Number 23 is more like a book on tape. And as usually is the case, more voiceover adds up to less movie. advertisement
The film is filled with distractions that are supposed to pass for originality - dream sequences, oversaturated light and other camera tricks. But these play more like goth-music videos inserted between scenes, rather than part of the overall film.
The Number 23 also is often funny when it's not trying to be, such as when the camera zooms in on the canine shadowing Walter, as if he's the doggie devil. Not only does the film have no sense of story, it has little sense of itself, including a long postscript just to untangle the knots.
As Carrey (Fun With Dick and Jane, Bruce Almighty) does with most of his characters, he treats Walter as sort of a play toy, to be molded depending on the scene. Walter's mental deterioration occurs in a flash; one minute he's fine and the next he's wickedly grinning and cradling a butcher knife.
All the way along, we're dragged through this silly plot about how everything adds up to 23, provided you spend enough time twisting the numbers. But the whole number 23 business is a red herring anyway, covering up a fairly obvious mystery plot.
The numerology business must have gone over great at the Hollywood pitch meeting, but it's pure drivel. The movie features too many convenient coincidences to be taken seriously, unless you believe the hidden force of 23 is driving events.
We're not really sure what to believe, because director Joel Schumacher never gives us a chance to think about anything. The alternate noir universe is filled with bloody stabbings and throbbing punk music, but besides the set design, nothing much is accomplished there.
The pulp dialogue is purple by design, but that doesn't excuse the rest of the film, which includes lines like, "I'm a killer. I have killed someone."
Don't you just love it when they make things so clear? Hmm, you've killed someone? Well, yeah, I guess that makes you a killer.
The movie is pretty much a one-man show (now we know why Carrey made it). An extremely bland Virginia Madsen plays Walter's wife, Agatha, who grows worried when her husband dreams about stabbing people and starts digging for bodies around the neighborhood.
The movie also features Danny Huston, whose character's sole purpose seems to be driving Agatha from place to place, so she can witness firsthand Walter's latest break with reality. It's a nothing role and a waste of Huston's abilities.
And The Number 23 adds up to nothing more than a waste of time. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
True Samurai
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Why should anyone insists on converting anyone else? Couldn't we just have a discussion? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I find it interesting that someone using the avatar name "ecumenist" would go out of his way to insult Hinduism and my representation of the teachings of the Hare Krishna movement - especially given the fact that he's ostensibly been registered on this forum for about a week  ...
Could it be that instead of seriously seeking to find the core spiritual unity of all religions, he's just another aficionado of the United Atheist Alliance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
