Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mnhnhyouh]

[Zoidberg]

[tomato]

[Rteacher]

Yeah, you ("tomato") clearly regard me as an individual (... under the control of a dastardly cult! ) ...

For the record, I joined the Hare Krishnas in November of 1973 of my own free will... I was a full-time devotee living in temples and ashrams for about 13 years. As far as I know, no one was ever coerced to join or stay - the door was always open (and I was fully independent by the late 1980's... )

In fact, when I was full-time, I often managed groups of devotees (as "temple commander" and even "general manager" of a South Beach hotel project) and our main problem was getting unqualified people to leave the temple...

The people more interested in controlling individuals (and denying their exercise of free will...) by force - especially when paid lots of money by relatives - are the so-called "deprogrammers" ...

Although they've been pressured (by the law and public opinion) to change their basic approach and tactics, they're still in business... This is one scholar's definition of deprogamming that was accepted by a federal court in 1978 (when it directly concerned me...):

In Colombrito vs. Kelly, the Court accepted the definition of deprogramming by J. Le Moult published in 1978 in the Fordham Law Review:

"Deprogrammers are people who, at the request of a parent or other close relative, will have a member of a religious sect seized, then hold him against his will and subject him to mental, emotional, and even physical pressures until he renounces his religious beliefs. Deprogrammers usually work for a fee, which may easily run as high as $25,000. The deprogramming process begins with abduction. Often strong men muscle the subject into a car and take him to a place where he is cut from everyone but his captors. He may be held against his will for upward of three weeks. Frequently, however, the initial deprogramming only last a few days. The subject's sleep is limited and he is told that he will not be released until his beliefs meet his captors' approval. Members of the deprogramming group, as well as members of the family, come into the room where the victim is held and barrage him with questions and denunciations until he recants his newly found religion "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprogramming

[mindmetoo]

Dude, Buzz Aldrin has been asked DIRECTLY about that and has said it was the panel. There was no UFO. If you can't accept the direct word of the expert witness, then there is little in terms of critical thinking that rattles around your brain.

[Rteacher]

Anyone who views the YouTube tape can hear Aldrin directly speak about it about a year-and-a half ago. He gave absolutely no indication that he at any point regarded what he saw to be merely a panel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI

Furthermore, the senior scientist on the Apollo 11 mission (Dr. David Baker) seen interviewed gave absolutely no indication that NASA ever considered what Aldrin described as a UFO to be a panel, and he made no mention of that being discussed with the crew:

Dr. David Baker (Apollo 11 Senior Scientist): NASA knew very little about, um, the object reported by the Apollo 11 crew. It was obviously an unidentified flying object, but such objects were not uncommon and the history of even earth orbit space flights going back over the previous years indicated that several crews saw objects...

Dr. David Baker: There were a lot of people within the program who went off later and became convinced that UFOs existed and that lead to some concern on NASA's part where they got the agreement of the crew never to publicly talk about these things for fear of ridicule...

It's obvious to me - based on Dr. Baker's statement and Buzz Aldrin's known tendency to be a loose cannon - that Aldrin was pressured to change his story after he gave that interview...

There are reportedly other recordings of astronauts discussing UFOs and strange phenomena.
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/astro2.html

Astronaut Gordon Cooper, who died recently, was particularly outspoken about their being a government cover up, and he even wrote this letter to the United Nations:

November 9, 1978

Ambassador Griffith
Mission of Grenada to the United Nations
866 Second Avenue
Suite 502
New York, New York 10017

Dear Ambassador Griffith:

I wanted to convey to you my views on our extra-terrestrial visitors popularly referred to as "UFO's", and suggest what might be done to properly deal with them.

I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion. We my first have to show them that we have learned to resolve our problems by peaceful means, rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. This acceptance would have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling this subject properly and expeditiously...

I would also like to point out that most astronauts are very reluctant to even discuss UFO's due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents abusing their names and reputations without hesitation. Those few astronauts who have continued to have a participation in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously. There are several of us who do believe in UFO's and who have had occasion to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane. There was only one occasion from space which may have been a UFO.

If the UN agrees to pursue this project, and to lend their credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information.

I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Sincerely,

L. Gordon Cooper
Col. USAF (ket)
Astronaut
http://www.ufoevidence.org/news/article161.htm

Of course, in recent years NASA has come increasingly under the control of the Defense Department. It has been well documented how all major government intelligence agencies, worldwide, utilize disinformation and other sophisticated cover-up techniques ...

I'm not saying that I'm completely convinced that UFO aliens have visited earth, but I wouldn't seriously doubt it, either ...

Here's another very interesting site (for those not prejudiced against aliens ... )http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicphotos.html

[venus]

[mindmetoo]

[dogbert]

How did the (sacred) cow jump over the moon then?

[Rteacher]

Well, he did - on his own - decide to read from Genesis on Apollo 8 (resulting in a lawsuit...) Even after being criticized by some for that, he insisted on taking communion on the moon - which I kind of like (and gives more credence to his at least believing that he was on the moon...

From the Wikipedia article:

Buzz is well known for having a spiritual side, being a Freemason, and for having made statements about God -- including receiving the Sacrament of Holy Communion on the surface of the moon.[citation needed] After landing on the moon, Aldrin radioed earth with these words: "I'd like to take this opportunity to ask every person listening in, whoever and wherever they may be, to pause for a moment and contemplate the events of the past few hours, and to give thanks in his or her own way." Aldrin kept his Communion a secret because of the lawsuit regarding the reading of Genesis on Apollo 8.[6] Using a pastor's home Communion kit given to him by Dean Woodruff and using words used by his pastor at Webster Presbyterian Church, Aldrin celebrated Communion alone, without his colleague Armstrong participating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzz_Aldrin

In his own autobiography, Aldrin admits to having problems with alcoholism and depression since his astronaut days. Some claim that he had a nervous breakdown...

Too much government pressure to conceal what he possibly saw could be a contributory factor to his mental problems.

Of course, that cross-country driving, diaper-wearing, weapon-concealing lady astronaut somewhat tarnished the notion that all high-level NASA personel are model citizens - or even sane...

(Even I portrayed a NASA VIP and astronaut Frank Borman's uncle in the HBO mini-series, From the Earth to the Moon - and I was a crazy Hare Krishna! )

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

I would think that anyone possessing classified government information who subsequently shows signs of mental instability would be considered a "loose cannon" at least to some degree.

Of course, if there's a cover up going on that he is a party to (which I frankly only suspect might be the case...) then such a person would certainly be considered a loose cannon by the government.

There's also the testimony of Dr. David Baker to consider. - I haven't found much background on him yet...

As far as the issue of "expert witnesses", in legal circles, they're mainly considered to be "hired guns"...

[mindmetoo]

http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-03/030907bomb.html#i4

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

He has had a very distinguished career, to be sure, but he still may be part of a cover up...

And for one who professes to be a religious guy (to the extent that he decided on his own to do a reading from the Book of Genesis to a captive world audience while on Apollo 8...) I think it would have been more Christian of him to just accede to the demand that he swear on the Bible that he really did go to the moon - rather than punch the annoying conspiracy theorist (who was hounding him to do so) in the face...

Gotta admit it was a good punch, though - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo