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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: ... |
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| " I mentioned the far-left's shrill claim that the sinister monster that is the military-industrial complex has subverted the democratic United States, fabricates "enemies" like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, Saddam, and bin Laden in order to deceive the population, and thus wages wars that accomplish nothing other than killing and murdering innocents and lining the depraved military-industrial complex's pockets. |
So, you're saying this is what freethought was implying? |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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So, let's get this straight......
The U.S. Military has started providing "moral" passes to those who have been convicted of criminal offences - some of them quite violent - to enlist; however, homosexuality is immoral.
Ha, aha!
As much as I enjoy being in America and like my American friends, what a truly f*cked up country the USA is. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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It's special all right.  |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys are trying to make this into something it isn't. The U.S. military doesn't disallow gays because it's immoral. The U.S. military disallows gays because it is, argueably, a threat to the cohesion of a military unit. Quit trying to act like the morality of homosexuality has something to do with it just because one general said he found it immoral. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You guys are trying to make this into something it isn't. The U.S. military doesn't disallow gays because it's immoral. The U.S. military disallows gays because it is, argueably, a threat to the cohesion of a military unit. Quit trying to act like the morality of homosexuality has something to do with it just because one general said he found it immoral. |
I hope you realize how 14th century this sounds (I mean that metaphorically, I do think the 14th century was much more progressive about this then we are presently).
My point. Did you just walk out of a cave? What the hell is immoral about it and especially when considering the "morality" of military life which is geared to the promotion of violence and strength and "kick ass", killing.
Duh.....
Your arguement that soldiers would all fall under the charms of some "homo", reeks of ................. well you know the word. Just another instance of fear mongering.
DD |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| you are correct. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You guys are trying to make this into something it isn't. The U.S. military doesn't disallow gays because it's immoral. The U.S. military disallows gays because it is, argueably, a threat to the cohesion of a military unit. Quit trying to act like the morality of homosexuality has something to do with it just because one general said he found it immoral. |
I hope you realize how 14th century this sounds (I mean that metaphorically, I do think the 14th century was much more progressive about this then we are presently).
My point. Did you just walk out of a cave? What the hell is immoral about it and especially when considering the "morality" of military life which is geared to the promotion of violence and strength and "kick ass", killing.
Duh.....
Your arguement that soldiers would all fall under the charms of some "homo", reeks of ................. well you know the word. Just another instance of fear mongering.
DD |
You dipshit...
Where did I say I agreed with him? Where did i say he was correct? I was simply stating what all of you guys seem to be overlooking: he wasn't stating policy. He was stating his own personal opinion. I was stating what the military's stance is on the issue, and not my personal opinion.
Calling you an idiot would be an insult to idiots everywhere. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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From the story's first line...
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| The Pentagon's top general said Tuesday he should not have voiced his personal view that homosexuality is immoral and should have just stated his support for the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy...[emphasis added -- g.] |
You have to really admire this hanging jury's tenacity and imperviousness to nuance at all costs, Pligganease.
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| You have to really admire this hanging jury's tenacity and ability to resist nuance at all costs, Pligganease. |
As usual, it "Any excuse to ridicule the U.S. or it's military" on Dave's, regardless of whether it has any merit or not. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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The so-called don't ask/don't tell policy has been in effect for more than a decade. A detente, so to speak.
But one general speaks in a polarized environment and suddenly the righteous and the howler-monkeys all come running to judge and screech at the same time over an issue that is, in effect, presently a non-issue.
Did it occur to any of our resident geniuses that someone in the press likely baited Pace, effectively luring him into this...? Not to mention Freethought's sensationalist and melodramatic repeating a distorted version of the story here...? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| over an issue that is, in effect, presently a non-issue. |
Its not a non-issue for homosexuals. Many men and women want to serve their country and help fight the war on terror and are being legally discrimintated against by their own government. The only reason straight people seem to think this is over as an issue is becasue they think we can just hide who we are. Nothing could be further from the truth, no one asks black soldiers to stop speaking in ebonics (go to itaewon for evidence of that) so why should we hide ourselves.
And to the poster who said it would hurt unit cohesivness, that BS and yuou know it. THey said the same thing about women serving. Gays are out and welcome in the Canadian Forces, many serving in Afghanistan. Its only a problem for biggots and close-minded witchcraft followers. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| It[']s only a problem for biggots and close-minded witchcraft followers. |
And I know you do not assign this to me. Perhaps our politics clash, Octavius. But I feel at least our exchanges have a distinct civility about them. I hope that does not change.
And you and I both would vote gays into the military tomorrow, as I believe you already know. I agree with your position that gays' situation remains unjust.
But it is not up to you or me and it is far from a clear-cut issue. We are in a democracy and there are other views to take into account. Clinton ran into a solid brick wall in early 1993, remember? He reassed his position and chose a realistic compromise. And what we have now is far better than what it was. And, as a former Marine, I can assure you that before don't ask/don't tell the military used to force homosexuals to lie to get in ("Are you a homosexual?" was asked multiple times during entrance processing before Clinton changed it. No longer the case.)
So, then, I would advise any gays who cannot live in a don't ask/don't tell world, DO NOT ENLIST, at least for the time being.
That is just the way it is. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| And to the poster who said it would hurt unit cohesivness, that BS and yuou know it. |
I didn't say that homosexuals would hurt unit cohesiveness as my own personal opinion. I simply said that that was the position of the military.
However, for someone who has nothing but bad things to say about the American military, you assume an awful lot of open-mindedness among those ranks and the acceptance of homosexuals inside an actual unit. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Not to mention Freethought's sensationalist and melodramatic repeating a distorted version of the story here...? |
What distortion???
And as for baited, NO ONE baited him, and then he repeated the position/statement at least twice to different sources in different interviews.
Octavius' point is bang on. You called this "essentially a non-issue." Discrimination is NOT a non-issue. Moreover he portrayed this as a moral issue, and he said he didn't like immoral things. But the treatment of prisoners is immoral, shipping people off to be tortured is immoral. And since you don't feel the military has any role in those (which is BS: see Gitmo and Abu graib), let's look at allowing convicted fellons and all kinds of other convicted criminals into the military. They're apparently more than welcomed, but gay, no sir, you come out of that closet we're gonna fire your ass. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher, it was not addressed to you, it was to those in the republic that believe it is ok to discriminate, and I agree with your overall point i was just pointing out that for us gays it is far from a non-issue.
I know, as well, that you did not personally mean the cohesive thing, it is some in the DoD who say that tripe. I should have said anyone who thinks that is just ignorant.
I have no problem with the american military, my sister and father serve(d) in the CF, I'm not anti-military, i'm anti Bush and the way he uses and abuses it. |
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