Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Mechanical space travel (and "mindmetoo's" bigotry) has nothing to do with spiritual science. And, I didn't specify what particular cover up I was referring to...

America's lunar mission was driven by the Cold War and fears that Russia would dominate space exploration. To this day, even some former workers connected with the project think that parts of the first moon landing were simulated and filmed at locations on earth (like "Wag the Dog" in space...)

Actually a poll taken one year after the lunar missions ended showed many more people - 30% of the American public and "more than half in some demographic areas" - were suspicious of NASA's moon trips...

Of course, the prevailing opinion among technical experts (and general public) today is that the mission was authentic, but the motivation to fake it was certainly there, nonetheless.

And here's what Buzz Aldrin had to say about what he thought the real significance of the lunar mission was:

"to bolster support for the military services which would stand as a bulwark against the increasing threat of Soviet invasion".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/396128.stm

So, even astronauts on board were swept up in cold war politics - it certainly wasn't motivated by pure science. Big political stakes often lead to big lies - if necessary - to win.

I think that it comes down to whether the U.S. in 1969 really had all the necessary technology to land on the moon and return to earth. If they clearly did, then conspiracy theories regarding Apollo 11 actually landing there could be more readily dismissed.

Here's the kind of evidence and background outlined in a Wikipedia article that continues to fuel reasonable doubt:

Technological capability of USA compared to the USSR

At the time of Apollo, the Soviet Union had five times more manned hours in space than the US. They had achieved:

First manmade satellite in orbit (October 1957, Sputnik 1).
First man in space (April 1961, Vostok 1).
First man to orbit the Earth (April 1961, Vostok 1).
First to have two spacecraft in orbit at the same time (though it was not a space rendezvous, as frequently described) (August 1962, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4).
First woman in space (June 1963, Vostok 6, as part of a second dual-spacecraft flight including Vostok 5).
First crew of three astronauts on board one spacecraft (October 1964, Voskhod 1).
First spacewalk (EVA) (March 1965, Voskhod 2).

On January 27, 1967, the three astronauts aboard Apollo 1 died in a fire on the launch pad during training. The fire was triggered by a spark in the oxygen-rich atmosphere used in the spacecraft test, and fueled by a significant quantity of combustible material within the spacecraft. The congressional inquiry found that "the entire Apollo program was in shambles and it was a miracle no one was killed sooner"[citation needed]. Two years later all of the problems were declared fixed. Bart Sibrel believes that the accident led NASA to conclude that the only way to 'win' the space race was to fake the landings.[48] In any case, the first manned Apollo flight, Apollo 7, occurred in October, 1968, 21 months after the fire.

Missing data

a) Dr. David Williams (NASA archivist at Goddard Space Flight Center) and Apollo 11 flight director Gene Kranz both acknowledged that the Apollo 11 telemetry data tapes are missing...

b) Hoax proponents say that blueprints for the Apollo Lunar Module, rover and associated equipment are missing ...

c) Bart Sibrel said "In my research at NASA I uncovered, deep in the archives, one mislabeled reel from the Apollo 11, first mission, to the Moon. What is on the reel and on the label are completely different. I suspect an editor put the wrong label on the tape 33 years ago and no reporter ever had the motive to be as thorough as I. It contains an hour of rare, unedited, color television footage that is dated by NASA�s own atomic clock three days into the flight. Identified on camera are Neil Armstrong, Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin, and Michael Collins. They are doing multiple takes of a single shot of the mission, from which only about ten seconds was ever broadcast. Because I have uncovered the original unedited version, mistakenly not destroyed, the photography proves to be a clever forgery. Really! It means they did not walk on the Moon!" ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_accusations

Unfortunately that article links to the same dated article posted here (and maybe there ...) by "mindmetoo" as reflecting the belief of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness that the moon is farther away from earth than the sun. I've already explained that that may have been the view held about 40 years ago, but Hare Krishna scientists for the past twenty years or so have interpreted the Vedic texts in the way that I indicated earlier...

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

The same article also states that although NASA claims to have those tapes, there has yet to be any actual evidence of them (arousing suspicion that they still may be "works" in progress...)

[mindmetoo]

[tomato]

I just thought of something:
if the founder of the Hare Krishnas was a member of a disciplic succession,
and he has passed away,
where is the next one?

Will everyone agree that he is the next one?

[Rteacher]

That's a complex and controversial subject...

Eleven senior disciples who had been selected by Bhaktivedanta Swami (aka Srila Prabhupada...) to initiate on his behalf while he was ill and nearing the end of his physical presence on this planet became initiating gurus in ISKCON under a "Zonal Acharya" concept which proved very problematic. Most of them (at least 7 of the 11) fell down from their spiritual vows (i.e. no illicit sex, no intoxication, no eating meat, fish, or eggs, no gambling, and chanting the Hare Krisnna mantra a prescribed minimum daily number of times ...) and retired from their duties or left the movement.

Consequently, thousands of their disciples became more-or-less bewildered, and several factions and "revival" groups formed, mostly in reaction to the idea that such faulty "new gurus" had been rubber-stamped as pure devotees. A minority opinion of many older devotees who left ISKCON is that Srila Prabhupada should always remain the only initiating spiritual master within this branch of Gaudiya Vaishnavism while senior devotees in good standing could serve as officiating priests (rtvics) on his behalf...

There have been some major reforms and modifications, and currently there are more than 80 people authorized to initiate their own disciples (who then become "grand-disciples" of Srila Prabhupada)

It's accepted by all concerned that Srila Prabhupada will always be the main instructing spiritual master of the Hare Krishna movement, and that he lives forever in his books...

This Wikipedia article gives some idea along these lines ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISKCON[/url]

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Vedic cosmology is very sophisticated and involves higher-dimensional representations in three-dimensional space so it's not that easy to understand from a mundane perspective, and various interpretations are possible.

The goal of Vedic knowledge is to transcend the material world of relativity, and matter is considered less important than spirit. Reviving our original spiritual conciousness and our relationship with the Absolute Person is the main focus.

Material science is very useful for acquiring technical material knowledge, and it should be used wisely for the benefit of all living beings. God-conscious, non-sectarian persons conversant in spiritual science can provide guidance on progressing peacefully and harmoniously with nature - rather than by conquering and exploiting her in material consciousness...

[mindmetoo]

[ChimpumCallao]

mind me too...


i feel like kind of an a-hole for asking, but im curious.

have you been dating the same girl for the past 2 years or does your girlfriend change with every picture.

Im really not sure. it's probably because im not multicultural.

please enlighten.

also Rteacher- you have taught me so much about multi-armed and legged smurf people who enlighten.

thanks.

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

The 94 million miles figure does not come from the Puranic literatures. The moon-distance issue never came up in the Hare Krishna movement until the lunar missions. At that time the movement was only a couple years old, and the Bhaktivedanta Institute (scientific branch of ISKCON...) had not been formed yet.

Someone had presented to Bhaktivedanta Swami that the modern science calculated the distance of the sun from the earth to be about 93 million miles. Prabhupada offhandedly remarked that the moon must be at least 94 million miles away then because the Bhagavatam gives a greater distance. He never claimed to be a material scientist, and this type of information is not essential to the transmission of transcendental knowledge.

When Bhaktivedanta Institute scientist Sadaputa dasa (Richard L. Thompson, Ph.D.) researched the relevant Sanskrit passages and charts in depth he discovered that beyond the mythological associations, there were four sophisticated cosmological models based on exact science, indicating advanced astronomical knowledge in ancient Vedic civilization.

He has authored two books on the the subject: Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy, and Mysteries of the Sacred Universe which have been well received in intellectual circles.

He meticulously traces out the history of the Vedic unit of measurement , the yojana, in ancient Indian, Greek, Egyptian, and Chinese cultures in arriving at a precise definition linked to the degree of latitude at the equator.

Because Vedic culture incorporated a spiritual dimension in its science, these books are not the usual science fare, but I think they make a valuable contribution to our understanding of universal design. Fellow devotee Ph.D, Hrdayandanda Goswami wrote a glowing review:

...At a time when a somewhat dogmatic orthodoxy tends to govern academia, Sadaputa displays here all the intellectual ability, academic rigor, and the personal courage and creativity necessary to produce his brilliant discovery of the modern scientific relevance of ancient, Sanskrit descriptions of the universe. The large and growing number of rational human beings who cannot accept that ancient peoples were simply less evolved versions of ourselves, will find here a treasure of hard data and masterful reasoning to the contrary."
http://btg.krishna.com/main.php?id=283

More reviews:

Professor Gene R. Thursby, of University of Florida, observed, "A revolution in our understanding of the cosmology of the Puranas is in the making here.

This book offers a way of reading ancient Indian texts that is profoundly interesting and that overturns a long history of scholarly undervaluation of the supposedly only mythological' contents of Puranic literature."

Robert G. Bauval, coauthor of both The Orion Mystery and The Message of the Sphinx commented, "Gripping, scholarly, and groundbreaking, Mysteries of the Sacred Universe deserves to be widely read and discussed."

Professor Subash Kak of Louisiana State University writes, "Mysteries of the Sacred Universe is a very original book, and it represents an important advance in the understanding of the cosmology described in the famed Bhagavata Purana of India. Thompson looks at this cosmology from several points of view and he presents a compelling case showing that this cosmology was intended to have multiple meanings that span the terrestrial, the astronomical, and the spiritual planes."

Bob Ledwidge, editor of Living Traditions in Australia, writes, "Traditional cosmologies are derided in this �age of reason� as being primitive and ignorant. We hear so often about how far man has come in his understanding and how little the ancients knew. Mysteries of the Sacred Universe is a challenge to this view. It takes the cosmology of the Srimad Bhagavatam, a holy text of Hinduism and decodes its many levels of meaning. What is discovered is in a word�awesome..."

http://books.krishna.org/Articles/2000/11/00215.html

[tomato]

[Boodleheimer]