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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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But future kings were exempt.
And had Leonidas undergone the agoge |
The good professor should know that Leonidas was not expected to become king. If the life of Agesilaos is any clue, he underwent the training and only became king when his older brother's (Agis) son's legitimacy was challenged.
Leonidas was the son of Anaxandridas...
Anaxandridas was married and had been king for some time when the Ephors forced him to take a second wife to bear him children because the first wife had failed. (There is a legend about her being the ugliest baby in town until Hera blessed her and she became the most beautiful woman. Then Anax 'stole' her in a bet with her first husband...or something like that.) Anyway...
Wife #2 bore Kleomenes who was unwanted by his father who quickly jumped back in bed with wife #1 who promptly bore Dorieus, then Leonidas and Kleombrotus (who might have been twins).
Being third in line, Leo most probably did go through the agoge training.
He moved up when his older full brother Dorieus took off in a huff when the unwanted Kleomenes' claim to the throne was upheld. Then Kleomenes (who 'was not quite right in the head from the beginning') killed himself by cutting himself to pieces--or semi-skinned himself. The story isn't quite clear. Anyway, Leonidas did finally inherit.
So, yes I agree. It isn't necessary to invent phony 'history' for a movie when the 'real' thing is so kinky to begin with. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| Or Italians who live in Rome Roman? |
LOL.
Well, according to "Il Duce..." |
I do not see anything wrong with Italians taking pride in the Romans and feel they are Roman in a sense or that the Iranians are Persians, or the Greeks connecting to Athens. That is very normal. However, I think the Iranians being upset about how a battle was portrayed thousands of years ago while thinking it is okay to host a conference on holocaust denial seem to be not in a place to be criticizing anyone. It is a movie. Movies aren't completely factual. This was in the ancient past. The Greeks are connected to with modern Western civilization. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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This movie sucked big time...... I made it through a half hour and had to turn it off. Forget the bad history, forget the politics. Just plain sucked. The British/Scottish accents just threw me for a loop as well as the dumbed down dialogue and clumsy footage. Simple tripe.
What's worse is that for many, this will be history.......
DD |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| well dd you are most definitely in the minority with that one. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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DD wrote:
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| The British/Scottish accents just threw me for a loop as well as the dumbed down dialogue and clumsy footage. |
What accents would you have expected them to have, given that they weren't speaking in the actual languages that the characters would have spoken?
In the Penguin Classics edition of Lysistrata that I read, the Spartans were portrayed as having Scottish accents, in order to illustrate, to an English-speaking audience, the difference between Spartans and Athenians. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| What accents would you have expected them to have, given that they weren't speaking in the actual languages that the characters would have spoken? |
Greek accents? Something European and of the region. They atleast did that in the case of the Persians. The Persians didn't speak in any contrasting, high British English. But I see your point. For myself, it just brought up images of Braveheart and Mel.
I again restate -- this movie was just a glorified video game. Killing and killing and getting off..... I don't expect complete fact but I do expect a story more "human" and "full" than this one. It makes Apocalypto seem like a Fellini ....
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| well dd you are most definitely in the minority with that one. |
That was exactly my point. Glad not to be among that crowd.
DD
PS. If anyone wants to watch some great footage of Sparta, check out this video about the most famous race there, the Spartathalon. I hope to do this, this fall. No Scots in this one.
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-2600565803071215090&q=spartathlon |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think everyone is missing the most important lesson 300 has given us: That every man has the right to go around shirtless, yelling the name of his home at the top of his lungs.
Personally, I think this is something all of us, including the Iranians, can agree upon as being a good thing. So who's with me?
FOR KANGBUK GU!!!! |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: yes |
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| The correct answer to this question is 'Who the *beep* cares what the Iranians think?' |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| The correct answer to this question is 'Who the *beep* cares what the Iranians think?' |
To which the correct response is 'Who the *beep* cares what Ilsanman thinks?'
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| So, yes I agree. It isn't necessary to invent phony 'history' for a movie when the 'real' thing is so kinky to begin with. |
What I'd like to see is a well-made big-budget TV series that was interested in actually representing life at the time with some regard for accuracy. Something along the lines of Rome, perhaps.
Last edited by gang ah jee on Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I do not see anything wrong with... |
It is anachronistic and inaccurate. They are simply not the same people.
Athens fell. Sparta fell. Alexander came and went. Carthage fell. Rome rose and fell. Same goes for the Persians and Egyptians, who go back much further -- and the Mongols, for that matter, who are not Kublai Khan's subjects anymore.
A great deal of political, socioeconomic, and cultural and religious change over quite a length of time divides what they are today and where part of their heritage derives from. Best example of this I can think of are modern-day Mexicans and indeed many Mexican-Americans (for example, MEChA) who stress their Aztec past while speaking Spanish and practicing Catholicism.
And if you are arguing that they have the right to feel good about themselves and emphasize their area's history in their modern-day myth-making and nation-building, then I take no issue with this and would point out that we are not even talking about the same thing. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I do not see anything wrong with... |
It is anachronistic and inaccurate. They are simply not the same people.
Athens fell. Sparta fell. Alexander came and went. Carthage fell. Rome rose and fell. Same goes for the Persians and Egyptians, who go back much further -- and the Mongols, for that matter, who are not Kublai Khan's subjects anymore.
A great deal of political, socioeconomic, and cultural and religious change over quite a length of time divides what they are today and where part of their heritage derives from. Best example of this I can think of are modern-day Mexicans and indeed many Mexican-Americans (for example, MEChA) who stress their Aztec past while speaking Spanish and practicing Catholicism.
And if you are arguing that they have the right to feel good about themselves and emphasize their area's history in their modern-day myth-making and nation-building, then I take no issue with this and would point out that we are not even talking about the same thing. |
I respectfully disagree but not completely disagree. We have the ancient culture of our ancestors just like the Irish in a sense are still Celtic even if they have changed a lot. The connection and the pride is still there, but the Iranians of modern times unlike their ancient Persian ancestors are not as tolerant. The Zoroastrians at least tolerated religious diversity.
They have the same language and trace ancestrally to them, but it is not anti-Iranian to show a movie where the Greeks win a battle. That's my take on it. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| We have the ancient culture of our ancestors just like the Irish in a sense are still Celtic even if they have changed a lot. |
Iran is near fully a different culture. Totally changed. The invading arab hordes won, and converted them. islam is the ultimate cultural destroyer and homogenizer.
If Canada become an arab-styled muslim country, would they still take pride in the Avro Aero (sp?), the 72'Canadian win or WW2? Maybe, but the culture that created it would be dead and gone.
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The connection and the pride is still there |
Pride? Well, maybe they just secretly wish for a more proud time. When they were not a global joke, more backwards than Fred Flinstone.
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| The Zoroastrians at least tolerated religious diversity. |
Maybe that is a lesson for us, no? Cause, they tolerated "diversity" and now they don't exist. Perhaps there is a lesson there, about how islam deals with weak cultures. Because "tolerating diversity" is weakness. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| They stood up the Persians. |
Is that how the war between the two began? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| They stood up the Persians. |
Is that how the war between the two began? |
Once, I was late for a date with my Persian lady. I knew she would be upset so Iran. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| They stood up the Persians. |
Is that how the war between the two began? |
Once, I was late for a date with my Persian lady. I knew she would be upset so Iran. |
Nice!
I went out with an Iranian girl for a while when I was 18. Her parents left Iran around the time of the revolution, so she didn't really know much about the place. Strangely enough I have no idea if she was a muslim or not. I guess the evidence points to 'no', given that she drank, smoked, was around to make breakfast, etc. |
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