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swetepete
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Location: a limp little burg
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: The Rapture |
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Hey--is the Rapture a widely accepted Protestant belief, or is it a Catholic thing too? Is it peculiar to American protestantism? What about Jews and Mormons, or Muslims--do they have something like it in their religion as well, or is it from the New Testament?
I've only ever heard about it fairly recently, and am curious to hear more about it. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't think it's widely accepted.
Anyway, if it happens I'm gonna make it rich going around picking wallets out of abandoned pants lying in the streets. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I really don't think it's widely accepted.
Anyway, if it happens I'm gonna make it rich going around picking wallets out of abandoned pants lying in the streets. |
You'll be the richest man in hell!
I always thought the rapture was a phenomenon particular to American bible belters. It was just weird enough an exclusionary fantasy to appeal to the white suburbanites shaking in fear from life, huddled in their gated communities.
Whoever it is that's behind this they've got enough money and support to make movies and develop PC games. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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kimchi story
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Oddly enough, googling "Rapture" and "Apocrypha" takes you to some interesting sites about the Quran and Islam.
I might be wrong, but I think the word in the sense I believe you are referring to is a 20th century fundamentalist Protestant construction based on - or rather supposedly supported by - apocrypha. But it's a bawdlerization, right? The word goes a long way back in Catholicism and (I suspect) Islam to describe a transcendental religious epiphany.
It's a spin on the return of Christ and tribulation and all that. So it exists to some extent in Catholicism and Islam, and I don't think anyone but foot washing Baptists imagines that it'll be all like "*poof* we're gone".
I say blame it on Calvin. Why not?
Damn, here I was thinking you were gonna post some shots of Debby Harrie and this was gonna be a post about Blondie. That song always gave me the willies... |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I found this in wikipedia (so it must be true!).
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| The origins of the doctrine of the rapture are hotly debated. The Orthodox, mainline Protestant, and Roman Catholic churches, which represent the majority of Christians worldwide, have no tradition of such a teaching and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers [1] and in part because they do not interpret the scriptures the way that Rapture-believers do. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Catholics do not really dwell on the end times and the book of revelation. I think popes have generally commented catholics should be concerned with living good lives and not worrying about the end of the world. Catholics get into heaven based on their good works. In Catholic school, Revelation is basically taught in its historical context. It has more to do with the Roman oppression of Jews than about the actual return of Bejesus. Wisdom can be extracted from it, but it is not a road map to the future. And it doesn't describe current events. |
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robot
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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house of! jealous lovers!
shake down.
ROBT. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Re: The Rapture |
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| swetepete wrote: |
Hey--is the Rapture a widely accepted Protestant belief, or is it a Catholic thing too? Is it peculiar to American protestantism? What about Jews and Mormons, or Muslims--do they have something like it in their religion as well, or is it from the New Testament?
I've only ever heard about it fairly recently, and am curious to hear more about it. |
Biblical eschatology is shaky at best, which is why there are something like 16 categories of belief people fall under (dispensational, preterist, hyper-preterist, post-millenialist, pre-wrath rapture, etc.).
For a personal angle, I was raised in a family that firmly believes in post-tribulation rapture. The sequence of events goes roughly like this:
1. There is trouble in the world among nations
2. The antichrist steps up to the plate and unifies us all under one government (this is why the back of a dollar bill freaks out some fundamentalists)
3. Some prophecies of the Bible will come true.
4. This period will be a time of suffering and hardship for Christians, and is called Tribulation. (This is the time period when people will get the 666 mark of the beast, stop using money, and so forth.)
5. Eventually, Rapture will happen, and all true believers will suddenly vanish.
6. Thus begins a time period wherein God's spirit (the Holy Spirit) will be absent from Earth, resulting of course in limitless chaos, debauchery, evil, and unwittingly ironic heathenistic smarminess.
7. In the end, Jesus will literally come riding down from heaven on a horse and have an actual battle with demons. This battle is Armageddon.
8. After Heaven's inevitable victory, the world will be a perfect for one thousand years, an era creatively dubbed The Milennium.
That about wraps it up. Yes, I believed this fully for most of my life (until College, when "the liberals filled my mind with garbage" -- actual quote from parents).
There was a hilarious movie about this all made back in the 70s or 80s. The reasons why it's funny are obvious, but the best part was that when the Christians vanished, their clothes were left in a neatly folded pile on the ground. I used to watch this movie over and over for the comical effect, but can't remember the name of it to save my life. Maybe it was A Thief in the Night? Anyone know?
To the OP, if you really want more information from people who actually believe this stuff, or at least study it, please refer to Theology Web, particularly the Eschatology section. |
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swetepete
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Location: a limp little burg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Neat!
Hey, what are the sources of these beliefs? Is it largely from the Book of Revelations, or are there apocryphal sources as well? And, is Revelations in the Catholic bible too?
And what about the Mormons?
I never saw the movie you mention, Qinella, but I did enjoy 'the Rapture' with Mimi Rogers. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| swetepete wrote: |
Neat!
Hey, what are the sources of these beliefs? Is it largely from the Book of Revelations, or are there apocryphal sources as well? And, is Revelations in the Catholic bible too?
And what about the Mormons?
I never saw the movie you mention, Qinella, but I did enjoy 'the Rapture' with Mimi Rogers. |
A lot of it is from Revelations, but certainly not all. Religious folk have this way of taking a passage from a sacred text and making it mean whatever they want it to. So, there are quotes pulled from various parts of the Bible. Apocrypha, however, are generally not used to form Christian doctrine.
As for other religions, I don't know. You can check out Wikipedia, that web site I linked above, or other places for more info. |
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sock
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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The Book of Revelations is in all Christian bibles, Catholic, Protestant, and "other." I think that most denominations interpret the details of it quite differently though.
There is no mention of an event called "the rapture" anywhere in the New Testament (KJV); rather, there is a passage that talks about Christ's true disciples being caught up to heaven. This is what many Christians refer to as "the rapture," and the specific details differ somewhat according to denomination.
Mormons do not believe in the rapture, they believe in the resurrection. They believe that all people who have lived on this earth will experience a physical resurrection, although the physical state they are resurrected to will vary based on both their faith and good works. |
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parliamentofrooks
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| robot wrote: |
house of! jealous lovers!
shake down.
ROBT. |
Thank you, robot, that's exactly what i thought when i saw the title. |
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krats1976
Joined: 14 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Mormons don't accept rapture theology. And, for the record, rapture and resurrection are two seperate issues.
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Revelation (the book is not actually called Revelations). It's really the Book of Revelation or Revelation to John. One should not refer to it in the plural.
It is in the catholic bible, of course. But again, catholics do not read it like the fundaMENTALists. Catholics do not use it to control people. "Jesus is coming back soon! Obey!"
If one uses their brain and reads it as a book about the 70 AD persecution of the Jews, then one can read the book as "symbolic imagery to communicate hope to those in the midst of persecution".
I don't know why one needs to read anything more into it than that. To do so is to ignore the reality of how the bible came to be. |
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