Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sunlit]

who does it?? you or the director or the korean teacher?? i gave my 2 months notice because i'm tired of being the only disciplinarian.

[captain kirk]

I do it. Who else is going to do it? The wonjonim acts like he is afraid of the kids, and wants their business. He doesn't want them to become upset and leave, so he panders to them. But I do deliver the kid who has returned without a book who gets a sensible talking to by the boss. It has always been me when I have worked at hagwons. I wonder what foreign teachers mean when they say the Korean teacher or the boss handles disciplining the kids. Or when they complain that they must do it, and therefore want to quit. The only person in the immediate vicinity of the kids at the time of the transgression is me. When I first started working in hagwons I p*ssy-footed around and left in a huff saying I'd get the boss, and the kids waited. But the boss was typically unavailable and I'd return without the boss and they'd chuckle. That was then. If I did return with the boss they'd have on surprised, angel faces and recount their version of whatever had urged me to seek outside support in disciplining them. The boss would look at me, at them, say something to them, and leave as if he had been disturbed thinking, 'why doesn't the foreign teacher do his job?!'. On the other hand, the foreign teacher walks a fine line. There has to be discipline. In a school where there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen an 'overly stern' foreign teacher will be castigated as not supplying interesting enough lessons, so they have to resort to 'bullying' the kids into attentiveness. But that's what they think. There's the language barrier. And the fact that most of these kids go home and tell their parents about the behaviour of the meegook teacher and their parents likely shake their heads at how absurdly un-Korean is the behaviour of the waygook. I don't think the parents paint a pretty, respectable picture of foreigners. Nor does the public opinion.Though they want the kids to respect the foreign teacher so they get their money's worth. So I discipline the kids, using traditional Korean methods. After nipping over-enthusiastically heading-for-chaos behaviour in the bud to keep the weather pacific enough for all to study, and finding that isn't working after repeated nips...
-standing hands up in the corner
-push-up position on the floor
But if I have to resort to the above it means that I and the class aren't in synch, and there are ways to get that harmony. I don't have to do that some days at all. After a long weekend, or some other holiday, summer vacation or Chusok for example, the kids can be resistant, sullen, disrespectful, and wild enough to require discipline Korean style. With no Korean teacher or boss to discipline, I just adopted what seems to be culturally acceptable. However, if the students complain to parents and the boss that teacher is fearsome, the boss will side with the kids and the parents. The allegiance of the boss is to the little club of mothers who enforce their whims and opinions, so beware.
A lot of this job isn't teaching. It's work a bit, play a bit, work a bit, play a bit. Because the kids are tired and haven't the energy or inclination to focus with burning intent. They're kids. Setting up interesting 'play interludes' for them to get around class, and yourself, being heavy.

[ulsanchris]

i usually discipline the kids. I have them stand outside the class with their hands raised. I only let them stand out there for 2 or three minutes. If it goes on for too long it is counter productive. I find as far as punishments go this isn't very effective. It might work well with students who are normally good, but for kids that are chronic misbehavers it doesn't work too well. I've had students purposely misbehave so that i would throw them out of class.
At times I will go get the director and he will give them a talking too. Ultimately what would be the best thing to do is talk to the parents and explain what their child does right and wrong and mention how the student would learn better if the student stopped doing certain things. Of course this is unlikely to happen. i'm sure most parents would be embarrassed if they knew half the things their kids did at hogwons.

[captain kirk]

The boss talking to the parents about the behaviour of the kids invites a lot of extra work and concern, which he doesn't want.
Yes, the chronic misbehavers will stand one in one corner, another in another corner and chat with their arms up in the air. These students I finally get to sit up front beside me. Often they end up quitting, because they're just not into it. Go to another hagwon where they can fool around, maybe.
The Korean teacher doesn't want to get involved in discussion with the parents about their kids, either.
So it ends up being 'for the moment'. You, the foreign teacher dealing with the kids on the fly.

[some waygug-in]

I've given up trying. Every time I tried to initiate some form of discipline it ALWAYS backfired on me and I ended up creating even more headaches for myself. One time I lost it, kicked a girl out of class, and the next day I found myself in the directors office having to apologize to the girls mother.

On less dramatic occasions, all I ended up accomplishing was making relations between me and my students go from very bad to extremely f***ing bad. After trying to discipline one student, pretty soon the whole class refused to do anything.

Now what I try to do is ignore as much as possible, keep them distracted as much as possible with complicated word searches, crosswords, and small logic puzzles, as well as games. The biggest lesson I have learned is that there are classes that you really can't do much with. So when I have a group like that, I just work with what they will do. If all they want to do is word seaches, I make word searches from hell. (make them big, and long, with whole sentences to find, not just words)

If all they want is to play games, then I bring new games that help them to learn something, rather than just waste time.

I still have a couple of classes from hell, and my best attempts at getting them to do something have ultimately failed. I just have to grit my teeth and survive through these. Perhaps one day, I will be able to say I know how to tame any group, but so far it's a toss up.

Suerte

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

This is what I do:

I say "put your hands out".

They do so.

I wait 5 minutes then let them allow them to put their hands down. Then they go about their day.

The next time they do it, I say "put your hands out".

I wait 10 minutes then let them go about their day.

The next time they do it, I say "put your hands out".

I wait 15 minutes then let them go about their day.

You get the idea....

[crazylemongirl]

I try to use postive reinforcement where ever possible. If not I do lines for minor infringements jumping jacks push ups etc.

CLG

[BTM]

Beat them. Beat them silly. Bloodstains spattered on the walls will only serve as warnings to the next group*.






*then again, I don't teach kids, and rarely have, so grain of salt.

[CanKorea]

For younger students (ie kindergarten), if I notice them getting out of hand or becoming snarly to one another I call out "put your hands on your head!" and several other directions. It gets their attention and then you can bawl them out.

The older students I kick out of class with no compunction at all.

[sunlit]

i got into a "discussion" with my director yesterday about disciplining the troublemakers (3 kids in particular). this is after teaching alone ( no other english teachers at my school). after sending him a troublemaker, i noticed no improvements and told him i need him to back me up or all my discplining is worthless. ie the kids see that i have no authority if all my punishments aren't backed up by the director, right?
here's what i've been doing: 3 warnings ( in korean) then 5 minutes of standing with their hands up (warnings and then the time is upped when the kid doesn't do it correctly). writing their names with their butts, making them hold my hand, threatening to hug or kiss them (minor transgressions). then i take them aside and ask them if they understand why they were punished. my utlimate threat is to call their moms.
i've been doing well, but it's tiresome when there is no abatement in the same students. i told him i'd rather teach than spend most of the class time handing out punishments.
am i wrong in thinking the place needs some rules?

[camel96]

[sunlit]

stand up and pretend your butt is a pen, write out your name. simple and embarassing!.

[sandstorm]

Sunlit, I feel your pain. One the hardest thing about my job teaching kids is discipline because it's so hard to discipline them in English and whenever I try and speak even a little bit of Korean they fall about laughing like it's some kind of joke. Sux that your co-workers and Director won't help in this regards.

You mentioned some rules. Write them out, have them translated and ask the kids to sign them like a contract. Get the other students to dole out the punishments by asking them how you should punish little Johnny for his naughty behaviour, even suggest some options .

[Zyzyfer]

I used to be the right-hand man of Satan himself in affairs of classroom domestication, but I've grown soft over the months. I still generally have to discipline the kids, but what I'm allowed to do is quite finite, and stops at any angered physical transgressions. I found that the countdown in combination with "Box" points(there's a box I draw on the board) will make any class be quiet, even if only for a moment, but the stricter I am with the countdowns, the quieter they'll become. Once they reach the magical point number, they're forced to do something they hate, such as singing.

Of course, I'm way more respected as a teacher than I was in the hakwons, though I'm still low as hell on the totem pole. The mere threat of discipline is usually enough to make kids bugger off.

[Alias]

How many of you have worked at schools where you weren't allowed to discipline the kids?

Ever hear "You cannot punish the students, you are just a foreigner"!