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andy202
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: Discrimation in TEFL job adverts |
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So most of us come from countries where the law expressly forbids discrimination on the grounds of gender, age, color, sexuality and disability, give or take a few exceptions where there is sound reason (ie, tampon vending machine re-stocker).
And whilst we need to accept that things work a bit differently in Asia, the discrimination is, let's be honest, staggering. Just take a few minutes to browse the job boards to remind yourself if you've forgotten.
So is this OK, or should we be taking the initiative and asserting a stance in rejection of such things as gender-typed notions of job suitability? Does Dave's ESL Cafe regulate, or attempt to regulate, it's advertisers' stipulations with regard to discrimination? Is it appropriate to even attempt to import the brighter beacons of western employment principles to these murky shores?
I don't see why having a muff makes you a better teacher.
Opinions! |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: |
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We are not in one of those countries. There are no equal opportunity employment laws here. Schools are making large investments in their foreign teachers, and those teachers directly influence the business of the school. It is 100% the discretion of the school as to who they hire.
Now, if I were to walk into Victoria's Secret and try to get a job, could I? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Discrimation in TEFL job adverts |
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| andy202 wrote: |
| And whilst we need to accept that things work a bit differently in Asia, the discrimination is, let's be honest, staggering. |
I'd rather they be upfront about it than having me go to the trouble of applying for a job I'll never get. |
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andy202
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: |
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I'd rather they be upfront about it than having me go to the trouble of applying for a job I'll never get.
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I appreciate that this is the way most of us deal with discrimination - I don't apply for jobs that basically ask me not to apply either.
But the question is not what we, as individuals, do to deal with discrimination personally, but whether we feel it is acceptable; whether we approve of it, or reject it.
Even if you can do nothing about it, you can still stand against it.
If you are saying "No, discrimination in the work place is something I can deal with", that's cool, but how do you feel about it, in principle? |
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andy202
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Now, if I were to walk into Victoria's Secret and try to get a job, could I?
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Is this a lingerie outlet?
If so maybe they could use a few male assistants to help out guys looking for kinky birthday presents for their missusses. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| andy202 wrote: |
| If you are saying "No, discrimination in the work place is something I can deal with", that's cool, but how do you feel about it, in principle? |
On absolute principle, I'm almost totally against it (I can see enough exceptions to not be "totally against it"). In practice, if an employer feels that someone of a certain gender or race can do a better job, there's very little the legal system can do to prevent them from hiring that person. Just because it's not readily apparent back home doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |
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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Does having a degree make you a better teacher? |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| andy202 wrote: |
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Now, if I were to walk into Victoria's Secret and try to get a job, could I?
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Is this a lingerie outlet?
If so maybe they could use a few male assistants to help out guys looking for kinky birthday presents for their missusses. |
I can dream. I can dream. |
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Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| I think it's fine. It's their business they should be able to hire whoever they want. |
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sock
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I guess I always felt that there were a lot of places where I'd rather not work (sometimes because they're shady, maybe because they're too concerned about looks and not enough about quality). Anyway I see it as a way for me to weed through the crap places and find a decent work environment.
I think that it's too bad that some employers choose to limit the already small pool of applicants they have, and too bad that their main concern isn't the quality of teaching, but some other unimportant (to me) arbitrary demographic. I believe that it hurts the employer more than it does potential job applicants, though.
Is it unfair? Yes. But I doubt if I can change it. I've been trying to talk sense into these people's heads since I landed at Incheon and it doesn't seem to be working.  I think we may just have to wait until the current generation of youth grow up and become parents and realize that foreigners, skin color, etc. is not such a big deal as their parents and grandparents believe it is. |
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andy202
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Is it unfair? Yes. But I doubt if I can change it. I've been trying to talk sense into these people's heads since I landed at Incheon and it doesn't seem to be working. I think we may just have to wait until the current generation of youth grow up and become parents and realize that foreigners, skin color, etc. is not such a big deal as their parents and grandparents believe it is. |
Yes, wise words. The mindless prejudice that exists in Korea often makes me think of my dear old aunt who lives in a world of zenophobia and bone china teacups. She's frantic about the brown doctor who's moved into her street but we pay her no heed.
So let the younger people lead the way. You can't be institutionally rascist indefinitely when your little peninsula has global economic aspirations.
Last edited by andy202 on Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| If I were a hagwon boss, I would only hire the hottest females I can find. |
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europe2seoul
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| If I were a hagwon boss, I would only hire the hottest females I can find. |
Yup. I would do the same for my adult classes. And some guys too for women only classes - Mr. Hagwon - Made for Woman (Woman only English class where they do not feel shy to talk  ) |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| europe2seoul wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| If I were a hagwon boss, I would only hire the hottest females I can find. |
Yup. I would do the same for my adult classes. And some guys too for women only classes - Mr. Hagwon - Made for Woman (Woman only English class where they do not feel shy to talk ) |
Yes! We should start a franchise. Also, you learn English while you drink! |
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andy202
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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OK but this is not prejudice - it is not irrational and the discrimination here derives not from fear but the fact that you can't stop thinking about sex and beautiful leggy Korean girls.
Somehow that's OK. |
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